I'm now trying to decide whether I should attempt a medical degree to become a doctor. It will take ~7 years, a lot of unpaid study and work during that time, and after 10 years, if I'm lucky enough to become a consultant hospital doctor, I'll still be paid less than I am now, both per hour and per annum. As I'm in my late 30's with a mortgage and family who are dependent on me, it's a big, big commitment and risk to take.
Still, I vastly prefer my time spent with my pre-hospital medical colleagues and with patients to that which I spend working in software. I get an incredible amount of "life satisfaction", or whatever you might call the sentiment, for this part of my professional life - the only other time that comes close is my time in the military.
Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course.
I am currently trying to see if I can find a niche in healthcare, away from my software manager job, but am taking it slowly. For me, the 7 years of school are impossible, so no doctor for me. This comment is not meant to be in any way discouraging, and it may be presumptuous of me, as you have perhaps spoken to multiple doctors in the field interesting to you.
The feeling of tipping the needle towards keeping someone alive is incomparable, best wishes with your path transition, whatever it ends up being.
Yes, I have. My first career (maybe employment path) was as an enlisted soldier. It took some modification of sleeping patterns to go from probably the laziest teenager you can imagine to an NCO at age 18.
In Ireland, where I live, all junior doctors work absurd hours and call shifts. Theoretically, they all opt out of the EU working time directive. As a long-standing proponent of labour rights and as one of the few prospective doctors who may not require a salary to fund legal action, it would be my intention to go through the (even without free-out-of-hours-labour) ridiculously exploitative process on my own, and fight for EU-backed terms for myself as a test-case for my future colleagues.
Of course, even many doctors consider the "crucible of fire" an essential part of becoming a doctor, so it would be an uphill battle that would only affect a precedent in one tiny country (Ireland).
I have no interest in becoming a martyr. I also have no interest in becoming a doctor. I have an interest in being able to provide the highest level of pre-hospital trauma and medical care to patients in distress.
In Ireland, that means becoming a doctor. Unfortunately, becoming a doctor who works reasonable hours might require becoming a martyr.
>I am currently trying to see if I can find a niche in healthcare, away from my software manager job, but am taking it slowly. For me, the 7 years of school are impossible, so no doctor for me. This comment is not meant to be in any way discouraging, and it may be presumptuous of me, as you have perhaps spoken to multiple doctors in the field interesting to you.
I didn't in any way read your comment as contradictory. In fact, this is almost exactly how I how felt. At some point in the last five years, I became aware that all my military first aid certs were out of date, and began my training as an EMT. Once I passed all the tests (which involved a lot more study and testing than any CS degree exam I ever took), I began to volunteer.
As an EMT, which at least in Ireland is 1/100th of a medicine degree, I became involved in more critical care cases in my first year than a junior doctor might see. Due to the SAR nature of my role, there is unfortunately a high likelihood of exposure to death, but every experience is a learning experience.
However, if your goal is to help people in acute distress, then becoming an EMT (or even lessor qualification) who can act as an immediate cardiac first responder is a great option.
> The feeling of tipping the needle towards keeping someone alive is incomparable, best wishes with your path transition, whatever it ends up being.
This is such a truism that I feel huge parts of the healthcare system relies on it. It's certainly true for me. I honestly feel it would be true for many others if they could see the direct benefit of their efforts.
I am aware that this is an absurdly long and rambling response to your comment - I reckon that I’m probably struggling in the same position as you. If you want to DM me, please do - I’m very open to feedback.
My latest foray before the current re-attempt, I was only able to secure part-time EMT positions, (volunteer with pay), but to get to a position with a regular schedule that would fit my other obligations would require going to more school than I could do at the time.
Whenever one talks about medicine / patient care with fellow practitioners, it is also fascinating to note how different we all are and that the field can accommodate many, of those willing to pay the price.
EMT to the general populace was not something for me, I found dealing with families in distress more emotionally draining than any unconscious patient, regardless of their state. So what would work for me, it appears, is either work removed from patient family interaction, or medical systems work, whatever it may be (innovation, tech collaboration with surgeons, etc. They are starting to use 3d modeling side-by-side during surgery now, etc)
Yes, the family is probably in the worst stress of their life, and, if you have the luxury, one aims to include them in your care protocol, attempting to at least assess their level of distress so they don't suicide or collapse in the next 24 hours, but you also have a huge ticking clock for the primary patient...
Also, the pay is less than a normal software developer.
I am well aware that software developers on the whole have much better than average remuneration, so it's understandable that positions in other fields will attract lesser pay. However, another point which I didn't labour above (because I'm not sure if it's universal or in my own country only) is that student and junior doctors are expected to work absurd hours, often double the 48 hour per average week limit set by the EU Working Time Directive.
I'm currently (as in right now taking a break from) studying for the HPAT standardised test in my country in preparation for applying for medicine in the coming academic year. Although it's not particularly complex, I'm aware that if I had spent the time that I dedicated to my EMT qualification and now the HPAT, I probably could have added hundreds of thousands to my annual income as opposed to a decade of ~€15 ph labour.
This isn't so much a reply to you at this point as a lament about medical care is undervalued. I'm a competent software developer at best.
Check out the uni job boards.
Not saying you have to keep working in tech forever, but I don't think it's objectively stopped being fun and interesting.
I disagree with this and feel this thinking makes peoples lives miserable thinking they're somehow wasting their lives and makes people take plunges in life that they later regret.
I feel there is space for an attitude that, to learn a craft you need to toil and master it with deep dedication and practice. Mastery, will bring with it naturally that joy that we seek.
I think if people consider their craft as bigger than themselves, with an attitude of humility and learning they will get the happiness and satisfaction of building things. Rather than seeking a job that's somehow obliged to give you that happiness juice..
Its short, only a few short paragraphs - but it has one key piece that I've found myself oft quoting to people:
> Maybe this is what people mean when they tell us to "find our passion", but that phrase seems pretty abstract to me. Maybe instead we should encourage people to find the hard problems they like to work on. Which problems do you want to keep working on, even when they turn out to be harder than you expected? Which kinds of frustration do you enjoy, or at least are willing to endure while you figure things out? Answers to these very practical questions might help you find a place where you can build an interesting and rewarding life.
> I realize that "Find your passion" makes for a more compelling motivational poster than "What hard problems do you enjoy working on?" (and even that's a lot better than "What kind of pain are you willing to endure?"), but it might give some people a more realistic way to approach finding their life's work.
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I enjoy software development - and I do so because I enjoy solving those problems. To me, software development is like being paid to solve sudoku puzzles all day long (and yes, I watch cracking the cryptic from time to time)... well, at least when I'm not in meetings.
One of the important skills that I now realize that the dreaded math classes that I disliked (integrations and eigenvectors - ugh) was about the skill of continuing to solve the problem rather than giving up (and searching for the answer). Yes, there's a place for people who go to the back of the book or Stack Overflow for the solution - but many haven't learned the hard skill of continuing to solve the problem when its not easy.
Trying to progress in your chosen craft when you find the actual challenge to be sheer tedium is deeply demoralising and can affect other aspects of your life. In my case it lead to feelings of helplessness and pointlessness.
Such a great link - states the problem succinctly and provides an excellent heuristic. Thanks for sharing.
As an aside, it is interesting looking at the history of other submissions from the same author - https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=uni.edu
Thinking that life would have been better with someone else, is just an escape for the mind which makes people miserable!
The secret is to roll up your sleeves, and put in the work!
Though that will change soon thanks to a fantastic liquidity event.
I'm looking forward to leaving this industry in a couple of months and living comfortably on my low- to mid-seven figure exit.
Just became a real estate agent.
Maybe you can segue into that?
Or maybe you can build and test drones. And the noise from the spinning propellers adds to the mystique of robotics development.
I'm with you. If I had another skill, I'd give up computers entirely. Maybe have a smartphone, and that's it. But only for limited use.
I wish I could build things with my hands, or play an instrument, or just be good at something else, and let the tech world pass me by. I used to love technology because it was fun and interesting. It's no longer either of those things.