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Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by malloryerik on Monday February 08, 2021 @08:39AM (#26064247)
I'm not sure it's fair to call a gorilla a "wild animal" when they've been so socialized that they live in a human home, use the light switch and the bathroom, go on walks with the local kids and have deep familial relationships with humans, the only other animals they know. That's not to claim that I have any idea how dangerous or not the situation might have been but "wild" really sounds like the wrong word here. Human culture was all the poor fellow knew, despite not being human.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by lurquer on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:19PM (#26070283)
On the multistate bar exam there is a invariably a version of this question:

“Susie raised a pet squirrel from birth. It was very well-trained, calm, and seemed to think it was a dog. It would come when called, could do tricks, etc.”

There would be some scenario that would follow where the test-taker would be asked to decide whether this indubitably gentle creature was a “wild animal.” The answer is always yes... training, temperament, etc. has nothing to do with it.

(The issue comes up in legal cases — albeit, rarely — due to the different levels of responsibility one has towards others when one’s pet or livestock causes damage or injury. For a “domesticated animal”, the owner usually needs to be negligent in some way. But, for a “wild animal”, the owner is always strictly liable.

Which is odd in many ways... you may have less liability when your vicious pit bull attacks than when your pet sloth lashes out at someone tormenting it. For, the sloth is by definition “wild” and the dog is, by definition, “domesticated.”

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by bmlzootown on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:15PM (#26071667)
To be fair, I'm not entirely sure that humans shouldn't be classified as "wild animal(s)" as well if that's the case.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:31PM (#26072342)
I guess this was true when we were still practicing slavery? The owner would be held strictly liable for slave inflicted attacks, so humans would be wild animals by that definition.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by lurquer on Monday February 08, 2021 @08:14PM (#26072646)
What do you mean by “we”?
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by solarengineer on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:48PM (#26074003)
Slave suppliers - those at the start of the chain - often sell those from their region. Across centuries, humans from all parts of the world have enslaved each other.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by lurquer on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @01:14PM (#26080736)
An infinitesimal fraction of humans have ever owned a slave.

I know how the pronoun was intended to be used, and I’m not attributing any ill-intent. It’s perfectly appropriate to use “we” when referring to humans in general; such as “back before we discovered nuclear power” or “back when we discovered antibiotics.”

But, for something as recent (and ongoing) as slavery, you may want to think twice before using such a sweeping pronoun. A good portion of the US, for instance, have great-grandparents who literally fought in a war to abolish slavery. More subtly, the use of “we” seems to impute blame or responsibility on those living for actions taken by a very small group of people. It’s neither accurate nor useful.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @04:39PM (#26082687)
> More subtly, the use of “we” seems to impute blame or responsibility on those living for actions taken by a very small group of people. It’s neither accurate nor useful.

Saying that it was a very small number of people sounds a mite ridiculous to me. Multiple cultures throughout history have supported/accepted it.

It is also a reminder. These weren’t storybook monsters, they were humans, and we should be reminded of that lest we regress.

We’re certainly not to blame, but we are responsible for not going back there.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @04:22PM (#26082535)
Humanity?

I guess given my origins you can also read it as either country or race, but that wasn’t the intent since it isn’t that exclusive. It’s been a fairly consistent theme throughout history somewhere.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by m463 on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:25PM (#26072291)
I have more respect for middle school principals nowadays.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by jeegsy on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:08AM (#26076555)
Once I read the story, I could easily predict the comments that would follow on HN: > because there is no controlling a 200-pound angry wild animal when its upset:

>I'm not sure it's fair to call a gorilla a "wild animal" when they've been so socialized that they live in a human home

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by SilasX on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:14PM (#26071661)
Is there a clear process by which the law will recategorize some species into domesticated?
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by andylynch on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:39PM (#26071895)
Not really- it’s incredibly rare for this to happen - looking at Wikipedia the only newly domesticated species in over a century are some silver foxes in Russia as part of a scientific research program, and pet hedgehogs in the USA.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by type0 on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:44PM (#26071943)
Probably not. Take for example reindeer herding by Sami people, it's usually said that those animals are half domesticated, so you shouldn't draw a line like that.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by DyslexicAtheist on Monday February 08, 2021 @08:46AM (#26064324)
further, if one has the opportunity to talk to people working in a forensic psychology unit, they might discover the presence of the "wild animal" in the human and that all of us are still a lot closer to that wild animal than we like to admit.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by rbanffy on Monday February 08, 2021 @10:13AM (#26065546)
Still, a raging 80 kg human can be a handful to deal with. A raging 200 kg gorilla is much worse. There is a lot that can be done to assimilate a gorilla into a human society, but they aren't human and the differences, while possible to understand at a certain effort, may end up surprising you.

My cat still tries to hunt my foot when bored. If she were a tiger, I would have a very serious problem to deal with (it's hard to buy shoes individually)

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by yencabulator on Monday February 08, 2021 @05:12PM (#26070923)
Absolutely. However, that is a different criteria than wild/not wild.

Bulls are domesticated animals, after all.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:33PM (#26072350)
I guess it just means we have a fairly good idea of what will set them off, and can prevent that.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by btilly on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:15AM (#26066434)
Still, a raging 80 kg human can be a handful to deal with.

Exactly how big a handful becomes much clearer when someone close to you spends long enough manic and without sleep, then goes psychotic.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:34PM (#26072366)
Trying to hold my 15kg toddler when he goes crazy has given me a fairly good idea of what that would be like.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by btilly on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:12PM (#26073753)
I would have said the same when my kids were young.

When my sister went crazy in exactly the manner described, I learned that I was wrong. Totally wrong.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Aeolun on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @04:22PM (#26082527)
That’s potentially true, I have no experience with that.

What I was really trying to say though was that I can barely control him now. I can’t imagine I would be able to when he’s 80kgs.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by btilly on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:48AM (#26103801)
The big difference is that you have to put up with the toddler's tantrum for perhaps 15 minutes. You can even choose to walk away if you need to - the toddler won't go anywhere.

A manic adult is more coherent, but goes on for days. I mean that literally - mania keeps you from sleeping.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by wsc981 on Monday February 08, 2021 @10:22AM (#26065686)
> My cat still tries to hunt my foot when bored. If she were a tiger, I would have a very serious problem to deal with (it's hard to buy shoes individually)

But how about a lion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuxO-C2IzE

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by trhway on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:54PM (#26074029)
>Still, a raging 80 kg human can be a handful to deal with. A raging 200 kg gorilla is much worse.

the history of our civilization proves that raging 80 kg human with a weapon is a much worse than any other animal. Even mammoths went down before us. This is why we took over that planet and are an apex predator and are a most dangerous animal around.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by rbanffy on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @04:50AM (#26075624)
True, but, without weapons, I'll still bet on the gorilla.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by silicon2401 on Monday February 08, 2021 @09:48AM (#26065166)
I wish there was more literature about this, both academic and fictional. I've always found it amusing how far people go to believe that we're detached from the wild animal in us. From conception to some young age I'd say we barely differ from animals (hence why some animals are compared to humans at various, usually single-digit, ages). Then even once we're grown, there are many situations where I think, surely this is what a regular animal experiences too: looking for something and absentmindedly searching, having fun running around with friends, identifying a dangerous situation and either taking action to defend loved ones or flee, etc.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by gnramires on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:23AM (#26066529)
I recommend Jane Goodall's memoirs (In the Shadow of Man, The Chimpanzees of Gombe, and more), I think they provide a fairly balanced view on our relationship with our near ancestors (what Chimpanzees can and cannot do).
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by jbay808 on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:49PM (#26072480)
Minor point: Chimpanzees are our relatives, not our ancestors.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by StavrosK on Monday February 08, 2021 @10:34AM (#26065859)
Possibly, but consider how often people hit others or throw things when they get mad, and now imagine the person is a 350 lbs bundle of muscles with reduced higher faculties.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Jtsummers on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:30AM (#26066621)
Also, people tend to "hold back" unless they're in a true rage or have some other diminished capacity (temporary like from drugs and alcohol or permanent). Animals tend not to, which is why, pound for pound, they're a bit more frightening to deal with. I'd rather be in a fight against my 200lb BJJ training partner (who was all muscle, after some sessions I was sore for days as it felt like I'd been hit repeatedly by a truck) than the poorly trained (or poorly socialized, maybe it was trained) 80lb German Shepherd that chased me into my apartment building (he got loose from his owner who had it on a lead, fortunately I had a head start). At least I'd have confidence my training partner wouldn't latch on and deliberately tear flesh from bone.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by vagrantJin on Monday February 08, 2021 @01:19PM (#26068074)
> German Shepherd that chased me into my apartment building

This is a story I want to hear.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by Jtsummers on Monday February 08, 2021 @01:38PM (#26068311)
I never figured out if the guy got a dog that was ill-tempered, or if he made it ill-tempered. But my apartment building (loved the building, hated the neighbors) had no weight limit on dogs (learned after moving in, I had no pets so never even checked the policy). My first encounter with this particular dog was walking from my car in the parking lot back to the building. I heard it growling, guy held it on the lead while I made a brisk walk (not run) to the building.

My second encounter was actually inside. I lived on the first floor, not sure where he lived, but he was coming the opposite direction with the dog. It started dragging him, I hustled up the stairs (I was next to them, fortunately) while he regained control and got it outside.

The third encounter was the one I mentioned. I had returned from the gym (I walked there, it was a mile away) and was at the entrance when I heard the dog to my left. I looked and it was pulling on him, then it was free from him. Fortunately it had about 100' to cover before it would get to me and I got inside in a hurry (keypad entry, so at least there was no fumbling with keys and locks).

I really never wanted to be within 100' of that dog again, but they wouldn't evict him even after that incident. I moved a couple months later.

Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by type0 on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:10PM (#26072154)
Usually gorillas are considered peaceful compared with chimpanzees and humans.
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by m463 on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:34PM (#26072363)
gorilla and mirror videos are a trip. (or the leopard + elephants and mirror)
Re:A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village by throw2838 on Monday February 08, 2021 @10:18AM (#26065634)
How about other peoples rights? Not everyone can be around adult gorillas in modern city.