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Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by cogman10 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:21PM (#25930903)
Here's the tesla experience.

Pull into charge, plug in the car, start charging.

Here's the competition.

Pull into charge, plug in the car, Maybe swipe a credit if you are lucky and start charging. Likely, you need to install a 3rd party app first then you need to feed that app your CC information and then you need to tell that app a station number to activate. You better hope there's good internet because if there's not you might not be able to charge.

Further, for stations that do take a credit card or tap and pay. It's like 50/50 on whether or not it will actually go through. Usually it takes a crazy long time to actually validate the card number before charging (Like, I've waited 10 minutes before for a charge to start!).

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by slg on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:24PM (#25930953)
Then if and when you finally get through all that, you are likely charging at a much slower speed than a Supercharger.

Using a Supercharger is even easier and more seamless than refueling with gas. Other EV chargers are generally much worse than gas. I hope they get there eventually, but right now it is a night and day difference in my experience.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by cogman10 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:02PM (#25931504)
Agreed. I don't care too much about the charge time or cost myself as even with the hiked rates, charging is generally comparable or cheaper than a gas fill up (which only strikes on road trips for me).

What I really care about is how much time I'm interacting with the charge equipment. It sucks to be standing outside in the freezing cold waiting for your card to maybe get accepted only to find out that for some dumb reason the machine decides to decline it (forcing you to use an app which you likely don't have).

There's no reason all EV charging can't be a better experience than gas charging. There's already a data line established when you plug in (Both CCS and Chademo have data lines) so it should be beyond trivial for there to be a standard payment scheme (It should have existed from the start).

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by caf on Thursday January 28, 2021 @02:32AM (#25939191)
ISO 15518-2 does specify a "Plug and Charge" scheme. Tritium's chargers support this at least.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by theshrike79 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @03:15AM (#25939464)
> Then if and when you finally get through all that, you are likely charging at a much slower speed than a Supercharger.

That depends completely on the charger. "Normal" DC charging stations are 50kW around here.

HVDC chargers go up to 350kW, but not many cars can utilise all of that, most cap out at 75-100kW.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by beervirus on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:02PM (#25931507)
It's easier and more seamless, but it's also a lot slower to fill up. I guess that's why the car has Netflix...
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by cogman10 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:04PM (#25931537)
TBH, the charge time hasn't really bothered me. I've got a phone which I can surf the internet on or netflix in the car. Most charging spots are usually near enough to food or bathrooms so I can generally grab something to eat or use restrooms.

If you plan things out well, you generally don't end up waiting too long for fast charging.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by theshrike79 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @03:17AM (#25939473)
In 99% of cases you don't need to specifically wait for the car to charge. You can go do your shopping, grab lunch, smoke etc. Stuff you most definitely can't do while refueling a car =)
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by mohaine on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:56PM (#25931401)
You forgot that you can route to a supercharger and it will pre-condition the batter for charging so it is faster. Also, it will show you how full the charger is, directly from the app.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by ethbr0 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:12PM (#25931629)
Hadn't heard of this. Is it basically sloshing remaining charge around the available individual cells / packs to optimize for charge time?
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by ggreer on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:19PM (#25931738)
It warms the battery so that it can charge faster. A cold battery can't charge/discharge as quickly.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by cogman10 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:18PM (#25931722)
It's getting the cell temperature correct usually by heating up the cells.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by labcomputer on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:22PM (#25931783)
I've also noticed that USA-based users of CCS chargers often report needing to fiddle with the plug to get the car to charge.

Most of the reports I've seen are drivers of the e-Tron, Bolt and Setec CCS (for Tesla) adapter. They often report needing to put pressure on the handle while the station is handshaking with the car to avoid spurious ground isolation faults and/or communication errors. I don't recall reading anything similar with Teslas at Superchargers.

Given that this happens across manufacturers, I'm inclined to think that it is either a design flaw with CCS or a not-clearly-specified part of the CCS spec.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by goshx on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:47PM (#25931290)
You forgot to mention they usually cost 2x what the supercharger costs and charge super slow.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by umvi on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:33PM (#25931093)
You forgot:

Look up nearest charge station on chargepoint. Pull into charge, ICE car is parked there. Wait indefinitely or look for another charge.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by jackson1442 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:46PM (#25932141)
My personal worst experience was pulling into an ElectrifyAmerica station and finding that the only charger working was charging at about half the speed it should have been. They operate on a pay-by-the-minute scheme so it not only took longer but it also cost more!

EA chargers also put you in a price tier based on how much energy your car can _accept_, meaning we were paying the 75kWh price for 30kWh of actual acceptance.

Fortunately after talking to support for several minutes they rebooted all of the chargers and one of them charged at a more reasonable speed (but still not the full 75kWh we wanted), and they comped the charge at that machine.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by thatfrenchguy on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @04:18PM (#25934085)
They've fixed this btw sometime in 2020, they charge $0.31 per kw now.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by jackson1442 on Friday January 29, 2021 @12:52AM (#25954507)
Not near me! Pass+ members charge at $0.12/min for vehicles under 90kWh.

This is in Texas, by the way.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by FrojoS on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @05:57PM (#25935319)
Kw is power. Do you mean kwh?
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by mint2 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @03:54PM (#25933778)
And don’t forget the price is way too high. I don’t know how much a Tesla charger charges, but the 3rd party ones I’ve looked at are ridiculous.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by clintonb on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:46PM (#25931273)
The prices I've seen are also slightly more expensive than Superchargers.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by thatfrenchguy on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @04:22PM (#25934123)
EA is at $0.31 a kw in California, just slightly cheaper than Superchargers in California which are slightly above the national average.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by TLightful on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:33PM (#25931089)
So, swipe a credit card. Install an app. Sorry, that's not ideal ... but that doesn't seem to be a deal breaker.

Particularly regarding the app. Do I complain that I need to install Sonos and Prime Music and Apple Play once to do what I want?

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by ncallaway on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:38PM (#25931175)
Do you have to install an app when you get gas from Shell or BP? No.

Also, you seem to have only picked on part of the inconvenience given that this exists:

> Like, I've waited 10 minutes before for a charge to start!

Putting a hard dependence on someone having a smart phone, and reliable internet in order to get gas or charge their car is a ludicrous step backwards in user experience compared to either the (described) Tesla experience or filling your car with gas.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by TLightful on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:45AM (#25944613)
Do I install an app for many other things I do online? Erm, yes!

Fair point on the need to be online to use the service. However, not unusual these days.

Your last point? I have similar feelings towards Tesla putting a hard dependence on someone having a Tesla in order to charge up.

But anyhoo.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by kylecordes on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @09:26PM (#25937332)
If the public demonstrates willingness to use charging that requires a specific app for each brand…

Then it's only a matter of time before gas station brands start requiring the same (or pricing a bunch more if you don't have it).

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by xeromal on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:46PM (#25931289)
Another doozie is that 3rd party chargers are often in garages in the city and you lose cell service meaning the app doesn't even work. lol. I've had that happen more times than I care to count when I use my chademo charger for my tesla.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by bdamm on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:18PM (#25931733)
The worst part of this is taking the time to get the app all settled (hope they don't need to mail you a membership card!) and then find out that the charger is broken or slower than advertised. The state of things for non-Tesla charging is horrendous right now. Mostly thanks to big oil's attempt to corrupt every EV player ever, from the standards to the permitting to the carmakers. Now they're trying to own the space but they're faced with owning their own enormous mess. A tragedy of modern proportions.
Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by filoleg on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:41PM (#25932055)
>Do I complain that I need to install Sonos and Prime Music and Apple Play once to do what I want?

No, because there is no easily available alternative to this that gets rid of those pain points in you example. While for EVs, there is. Hence the whole disappointment.

It is much more difficult to accept inconveniences, when you have an option available that shows you that it is possible to perform the exact same functions, but without dealing with those inconveniences.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by TLightful on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:10PM (#25945004)
"without dealing with those inconveniences" but by having to own a particular brand of car.

Seems like the same problem to me, but from two different ends of the spectrum.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by mynameisvlad on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:53PM (#25931371)
I mean, the parent comment is explicitly comparing the experiences. When the comparison is between that and literally just plugging in and immediately starting to charge, that is a pretty big deal.

It’s not just one time, it’s every time you do a larger road trip. That’s very much a case of death by a thousand cuts.

Re:Tesla’s charging stations left other manufacturers in the... by TLightful on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:14PM (#25945077)
Seems to be the same problem to me from two ends of the same stick.

That ideal experience of just plugging in and immediately starting to charge is restricted to a particular car brand.

From that perspective, what a ridiculous situation which could be solved with cooperation but ... anyways, USB-C, Lion, etc etc ...

In conclusion, not just the independent charging networks are at fault here.