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Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by mattmanser on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:06AM (#25915347)
Read more science books and then you can fully explain it!

One of the best arguments that there is no God is exactly that beauty and complexity. It's only complex in a certain type of way, an evolutionary type of way.

No animal has jet boots, or fusion power, or laser beam eyes, or the billions of really useful, but impossible/really, really hard to evolve features. There's no design. There's no plan. There's only evolution baby!

You'll have to make do with some generalizations though, trying to go into the detail of every single thing is probably beyond what can be read in a single human's life time now.

Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything is pretty good start, or Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard Dawkins, which is a book about how science makes nature even more beautiful by explaining it, not less.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by kaba0 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @06:15AM (#25926828)
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” - Heisenberg

It doesn’t matter whether I’m atheist or not, but to state that you can fully explain - well - any process of the universe is simply naive. There are areas we know many things about, but biology itself has an enormous amount of accidental complexity, (which is often brought up by atheists as a criticism of design) for example many many signal path ways that do fundamentally the same thing, but differently. Compared to that, spaghetti codes have good architecture.

Whether God exists or not is imo orthogonal to the complexity of the world around us.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by mooseburger on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:50AM (#25918040)
Interestingly, no, it isn't fully explained as of today. Schopenhauer's quote of "Any foolish boy can stamp on a beetle, but all the professors in the world cannot make a beetle" is still true today.

No, starting from beetle eggs does not count. They point is no one knows how to start from the inert chemicals that make up a beetle and cause them to assemble into a living beetle. More generally, abiogenesis has not been cracked.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by mattmanser on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @07:38PM (#25922811)
Perhaps, but we also know today that a God doesn't pull the Sun up every day, no Goddess blows on the Sea to make the tides, no God gets angry and explodes mountains, and there's no Goddess painting the ceiling of the world with stars.

We do, however, know pretty much roughly how a beetle grows, how cells and DNA work, cell division, hell, even atoms, and their constituents. Even if we can't replicate it 100% yet.

Is your God one of hundreds of thousands that have been forgotten? Or do you just happen to follow one of the modern trendy ones? Is it Thor? Athena? Xerxes? Why is yours so special compared to the 99,999 that have been discarded?

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by nojvek on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @07:05PM (#25922564)
There has been many many experiments where they take Stem Cell and replace the DNA, or change the DNA. Transgenic mice are the most studied. https://www.criver.com/products-services/research-models-ser...

There have been succesfull experiments with xeno-pregnancies aka interspecific pregnancy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interspecific_pregnancy#:~:tex....

With current technology, we very much do indeed experiment with DNA of animals.

As for making DNA from raw materials, that is what DNA printers to. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gene_synthesis

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by brink on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:51AM (#25915726)
You're operating off of the false assumption that evolution contradicts the existence of a God.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by ashishmax31 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:22AM (#25916025)
Yes, but we already know about the rules which govern evolution, its the laws of physics.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by brink on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:24AM (#25916045)
We have no idea where those come from either.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by anthk on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @05:11PM (#25921644)
No, you have no idea if god exists to begin with. Thus, leave the phantasies out and stick to the real things we are proving today.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by kaba0 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @06:22AM (#25926877)
First of all, I though we are past the time where attacking other’s beliefs is acceptable.

Second, have you ever heard of this thing called philosophy? It is not useless to think about the word in an abstract way - without necessary relevance to the physical world. Like, what IS math?

By the way, I do not approve of those believer that go against science, since I think belief and actual reality can go hand-in-hand, and even with God, or perhaps because of Him, one can appreciate the beauty of sciences.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by anthk on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @09:33AM (#25928689)
Beliefs do not reserve respect, at all. Just people do.

I'll respect you, not your beliefs.

>what IS math?

Relations between proportions. There's no magic.

Also, Science never can't go side by side with superstition. Ever.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by LocalH on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:20AM (#25944268)
I respect beliefs that aren't pushed on someone. For example, I have a working idea of the universe with regards to sprituality that involves neither science nor religion. I don't push that belief on others, I only offer it when my opinion is asked, and I discuss it with an open mind towards the idea that I might be completely wrong. That type of belief should absolutely be respected.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by kaba0 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @10:11AM (#25929112)
You can’t really respect another person if you disrespect his/her religion..

Math is not that easy. How does something like eg. Group Theory fits into this “definition”? And yet, it is useful to the real world.

Superstition is not religion.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by tim333 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:09AM (#25917425)
Nah I think I've sussed it.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by f6v on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:13PM (#25919260)
If we start from a primitive prokaryote, we pretty much nailed it. However, there's no experimentally verified theory of going from organic molecules to life.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by spacemark on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @10:25AM (#25916812)
It doesn't contradict all gods, but it does explicitly contradict most gods, or at least what most in the western world mean when they say "God."
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by brink on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @10:31AM (#25916906)
I'm Christian, and I believe in evolution, the big bang, old earth.. They're not contradictory. There are actually a lot of Christians who believe in those things. CS Lewis believed in an old earth while also believing in God.

I usually try avoid religious debates on HN though.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by spacemark on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @10:39AM (#25917022)
Belief has nothing to do with forming and testing hypotheses. You don't "believe" in evolution or the big bang or an old earth. Scientific inquiry 101.

And sure, I get your overall point. I was Christian until age 26. I worked two years as a missionary in a foreign country, 90hr weeks, no pay, for my Christian beliefs. What "God" meant to everyone I encountered throughout that time, before, and after, is/was always a bit different. Ultimately we create our own personal God, and what that means can be compatible with honest and rigorous scientific inquiry. But you have to throw out large portions of the bible and accept that it's largely a work of art and useful fiction, and I will place $1000 down on a bet that the vast majority of "Christians" would bristle at such ideas.

But yeah, best to stay away from discussions of religion with anyone except your closest friends. Even then it's usually ill advised unless you have hours to sift through the nuance and are very good communicators.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by deadlocked on Thursday January 28, 2021 @04:19AM (#25939886)
> You don't "believe" in evolution or the big bang or an old earth. Scientific inquiry 101.

"Believe" is absolutely the right word; most of us don't have the time, inclination, or ability to perform the scientific method required to demonstrate evolution, big bang, or old earth. Outside of a very small number of people, the overwhelming majority of us are taking it on faith that these theories are correct.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by tim333 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:06AM (#25917391)
Depends how you define your "Christians." Wikipedia mentions 53.6% of Brits as Christian but as Brit I think I can safely say most of those don't take the bible seriously. Or Christ for that matter.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by tluyben2 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:37PM (#25923598)
Yes, I would say that is the case in the eu too. Where I am now, the majority of people are supposed to be catholic, but besides a handful of people, no one cares. And of that handful, the ones I have spoken to, do not believe either, they just consider it tradition; on Sunday they like the social interaction during and after church which involves drinking spirits with coffee.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by f6v on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:08PM (#25919175)
To play the devil's advocate, suppose we show that organic life can spontaneously emerge from basic building blocks under certain conditions. Even then, there's a chance that those conditions were not present on Earth when life appeared here. It might be the case that a God had to artificially create them. And the first life was here billions of years ago, chances are we can't ever be sure.
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by bromuro on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:29PM (#25923168)
I don’t see how the existence of God should be denied by science. In a never ending effort, science will ultimately explain God.

We all are able to take that little step inside our consciousness, trusting our innermost ancestral intuition and logic... to be grateful and humble in front of whatever is behind this universe.

Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by forgotmypw17 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:34PM (#25923213)
I agree, it's like a web page denying the existence of hardware
Re:Time-lapse of a single cell transforming into a salamande... by Koshkin on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:27PM (#25923542)
Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là. - Laplace.