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Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javajosh on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:34PM (#25906076)
"[Dominion will probable be] treated as a public figure." Why? I'd never heard of them before November 2020, and I imagine that is true for most people. I'd also be curious to learn more about what counts as "reckless disregard for the truth", if you're willing to share.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by dragonwriter on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:08PM (#25906520)
https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/proving-fault-actual-malice...

Dominion seems to be very clearly a “Limited Purpose Public Figure” in the domain in which the disputed statements apply.

Their lack of general celebrity is a good argument that they aren’t an “all purpose” public figure.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javajosh on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:26PM (#25908322)
Great link, thank you! That's precisely what I was looking for (and I highly recommend it to anyone else reading this thread). It does seem strange to me that we set the bar so high for defamation, but its one of those times where the trade-off is very clear, and it seems like in this particular case "reckless disregard for the truth" seems to fit extremely well.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by enraged_camel on Monday January 25, 2021 @04:29PM (#25909169)
> It does seem strange to me that we set the bar so high for defamation

Well, it's not that strange, if you look at how frequently mere threats of defamation lawsuits are used to chill free speech.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javajosh on Monday January 25, 2021 @04:31PM (#25909196)
Indeed. The solution, though, is simple: every man woman and child in the USA should just get a law degree!
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by tigershark on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:47PM (#25909997)
Every man, woman, person, camera, TV!
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by xxpor on Monday January 25, 2021 @10:22PM (#25912086)
After 2020, any states left without a strong anti-SLAPP statute should make it a priority to pass one.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by newacct583 on Monday January 25, 2021 @07:55PM (#25911098)
This is a situation where I think the law sort of fails us, alas. The spirit behind the idea of "public figure" in defamation suits is that these things should not be allowed to become tools used by the powerful to protect themselves from the weak. Being public means you are expected to tolerate criticism that would be tortious when aimed at normal citizens.

But the defamer in this case is the President of the United States and his legal team. That sort of falls down.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javajosh on Monday January 25, 2021 @08:04PM (#25911163)
That is a very powerful argument I am sure Dominion will make.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by dragonwriter on Monday January 25, 2021 @10:45PM (#25912262)
> The spirit behind the idea of "public figure" in defamation suits is that these things should not be allowed to become tools used by the powerful to protect themselves from the weak.

No, it's that enforcement of laws against defamation, as an act of government, should not intrude upon freedom of speech more than is essential to serve a compelling government interest, and that legitimate government interest is at its nadir when the issue involves restricting criticism on interests of public importance, which includes public figures (whether general public figures or limited purpose ones within the scope in which they are such figures.)

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by ashtonkem on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:40PM (#25906908)
Jurisprudence includes the concept of a "Limited Purpose Public Figure", which typically includes anyone or anything that is part of a prominent matter of public interest. It is not a requirement that this person or group be prominent before hand. Unfortunately this occasionally has the effect of making some plaintiffs a LPPF by the very nature of the allegedly defamatory statements made against them, but that's how the law works.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by ibejoeb on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:31PM (#25909850)
> Unfortunately this occasionally has the effect of making some plaintiffs a LPPF

I wouldn't call it unfortunate. If you don't want to be a public figure, one thing of which to steer clear is certainly the business of operating voting systems in the US presidential election. This is clearly public interest.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by ashtonkem on Monday January 25, 2021 @06:05PM (#25910187)
This doesn’t just happen to voting machine companies. Sometimes being smeared by a tabloid or newspaper might generate enough interest to make the victim a LPPF and raise the bar for filing a defamation suit.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by vhold on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:16PM (#25909710)
One way to demonstrate nobody had heard of them: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=d...
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by webdevatlurk on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:26PM (#25909811)
The breakdown of interest by subregion is... unsurprising.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by hajile on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:56PM (#25906363)
Most people (even people who follow politics) weren’t familiar with Obama before 2007 election cycle.

The Covenant Kid was thrust into the media and when he sued for defamation, at least some judges accepted the claim that he was a public figure — even though he was suing over the very thing that thrust him into the national spotlight.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by dragonwriter on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:10PM (#25906540)
> Most people (even people who follow politics) weren’t familiar with Obama before 2007 election cycle.

Obama was a public official, so the standards for public figures that aren’t public officials wouldn’t apply.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by kevinmchugh on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:53AM (#25916357)
Obama became familiar to politics-followers with his 2004 DNC speech, which instantly short listed him for the next Democratic primary. It also made him so popular he went around the country campaigning for other candidates. That's very unusual for a state representative in their first high-profile race. (It helped that he was basically unopposed in his Senate bid)
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javajosh on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:18PM (#25906649)
On a side note, interestingly every single post I've made in the last week has been downvoted. Even this one, which is literally just asking questions. Its almost like I'm being targeted. Dang? Is something going on?
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by dang on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @06:51PM (#25922459)
You've been getting downvoted by a large number of established HN users, and from a quick look it seems to me that the fault lies with your comments. Maybe there are exceptions, but the ones I saw in that ended up with negative points were unsubstantive and often inflammatory. Please stop posting like that to HN, and make more of an effort to stick to the intended use of the site—thoughtful, informative conversation on topics of intellectual curiosity, avoiding flamebait. Do that and the downvote issue should go away. If it doesn't, you can email us at that point: [email protected]. But please don't compound the guidelines breakage by posting like you did here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html