Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by slovette on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:24PM
(#25878943)
Not to be ignorant, but: So what?
What are they going to do with my car once they have it, Tesla’s notified it’s stolen for when the car phones home and I’m driving off in my new X the insurance company bought me. The same insurance company that now has ALL the data Tesla has about the car and some real mean lawyers going after whoever it was that stole it so they can recoup their money.
Maybe I’m blind, but the risk/reward on stealing a Tesla just isn’t there like stealing fancy cars was back in the 90’s. I know criminals aren’t always the smartest on the block, but even with the dumb ones, why should I care?
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by T-hawk on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:25PM
(#25879638)
You're glossing over the insurance replacement like it's free. It's not. Your replacement Tesla was paid for by everyone else's premiums. The more Teslas that get stolen, the more each Tesla will cost to insure.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by zamfi on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:50PM
(#25879761)
I think you’re missing the other piece of the parent’s reply — the fact that Teslas are always tracked, making them easy to find, makes it easier for insurance companies (and cops) to find thieves, and makes theft much less appealing.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by dawnerd on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:25PM
(#25879309)
I saw some numbers a while back and it's very, very low. The real theft ends up being people stealing the mirrors since those go for some $$ on ebay and the like.
I think would-be car-jackers know stealing a Tesla is pointless. Sure, they could stick it into a shipping container.... but then what? All of the electronics are signed and can be traced, the car as gps and will phone home the moment it leaves the container.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by thereare5lights on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:33PM
(#25879000)
People don't steal cars to keep cars. They steal them to use them in commission of other crimes and then ditched, for joy riding, or for breaking down into parts to sell.
Thus, no one is going to come after these people because they won't be able to find anyone to come after.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by slovette on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:37PM
(#25879023)
There’s a whole lot of information Tesla keeps and stores about these cars. Every data point is one more risk of being caught. If a thief is smart enough to leverage this kind of attack method, they’re not doing it, because they’re smart enough to know the better car for the gig is a 2001 Corolla for almost every reason.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by nethunters on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:34PM
(#25879357)
Tesla isn't doing something super unique in phoning the location home.
Talking about Toyota a lot of their post 2019 models phone their location home and other data in real-time.
This is used for their hybrid models to coach your driving and make you a more economical driver.
Disabling the location tracker may not be as hard as you assume as its done on a regular basis by thieves.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by devwastaken on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:18PM
(#25879261)
Who are you suing? Hooded person? People steal modern cars all the time that have remote unlock. They get in, drive it into a storage crate, and its gone. Efficient and easy process.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by slovette on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:34PM
(#25879008)
Ya, I hear that. But the whole time the car is moving it’s phoning back location data. These thieves would have to be SUPER sophisticated in their attacks and even then, one slip in a very unique theft procedure and the whole operation is compromised entirely by some heavy weight consequences.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by Veserv on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:02PM
(#25879177)
They can just turn off the internet connection. If that doesn't work then they can just destroy the transmitter/receiver if they are going to part it out anyways.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by mulmen on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:25PM
(#25879308)
In my city property crime is not prosecuted. Your insurance company is free to attempt to squeeze blood from a stone but that is not a deterrent to a person with nothing to lose.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by na85 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:41AM
(#25879987)
What makes you think, in this world of ubiquitous high profile security breaches, that Tesla is capable of making a phone-home system that can't be disabled?
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by nethunters on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:25PM
(#25879310)
A lot of car manufacturers have real time location data being phoned home so stealing most modern cars has this risk yet thieves still do it and get away with it.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by GhostVII on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:16AM
(#25879877)
Cut it up and sell the parts? Or tear out the computer and replace it with one from a legit car, or just disable the wireless connection entirely. I think a lot of stolen cars are also shipped overseas where no one is going to be able to recover them.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by koolba on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:07PM
(#25878844)
A bit off topic, but wtf is this?
> Will I have access to images captured by the Cabin Camera?
> No. You will not be able to view the images captured by the Cabin Camera as it’s not associated with your VIN and is intended for analysis to continue to improve vehicle safety.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by nbzso on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:55PM
(#25879134)
And your driving behaviour is free data for training the auto pilot. The tech fetishism is actually clear indication of how badly informed people live without critical thinking. And prevailing argument is that there is no alternative future with privacy and regulations on big tech. What a dystopian dream.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by ggreer on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:53PM
(#25879119)
The same logic applies to most phones, every voice assistant, and to most cars sold today. Tesla isn't even the first car company to collect all this data. GM did it with OnStar.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by GhostVII on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:18AM
(#25879888)
You need to be within 15 feet of the owners key fob at some point for this to work, so it doesn't seem like a super realistic attack. I think it's pretty rare for a car thief to target a particular person, rather than just stealing a random car on a quiet block.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by jacquesm on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:15AM
(#25881968)
There are similar attacks on late model Mercedes' with two way amplification of the signal of the fob and the response from the car. It looks like two pizzaboxes and a laptop.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by LeoPanthera on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:30AM
(#25879935)
I just bought a new X. "Passive entry" was disabled by default, and it needs to be enabled for this attack to work. If you enable it, the UI recommends you also enable "PIN to drive", which also defeats this attack.
Re:Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes
by motohagiography on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:47PM
(#25879073)
Wait, who is dumber, the person who steals the Tesla, or the person who buys a stolen Tesla? It's a tracking device on wheels with hardly any valuable moving parts. It doesn't make any sense.
I can't find the link on my phone, will update or reply with it later.
What are they going to do with my car once they have it, Tesla’s notified it’s stolen for when the car phones home and I’m driving off in my new X the insurance company bought me. The same insurance company that now has ALL the data Tesla has about the car and some real mean lawyers going after whoever it was that stole it so they can recoup their money.
Maybe I’m blind, but the risk/reward on stealing a Tesla just isn’t there like stealing fancy cars was back in the 90’s. I know criminals aren’t always the smartest on the block, but even with the dumb ones, why should I care?
It's only a matter of time until they update their tools and also go after Teslas.
> for when the car phones home
It won't. You are seriously underestimating these gangs.
About the only defense is some aftermarket theft protection/tracking that they don't expect.
Sometimes some of their middlemen shops/drivers get caught that way.
I think would-be car-jackers know stealing a Tesla is pointless. Sure, they could stick it into a shipping container.... but then what? All of the electronics are signed and can be traced, the car as gps and will phone home the moment it leaves the container.
Too much work for too little reward.
I had the battery stolen out of my car. Luckily there was a used battery shop just down the street that had just what I needed in stock.
Thus, no one is going to come after these people because they won't be able to find anyone to come after.
https://youtu.be/r61umo5VL98
I just don’t really see it.
https://www.tesla.com/support/car-safety-security-features#p...
> Will I have access to images captured by the Cabin Camera?
> No. You will not be able to view the images captured by the Cabin Camera as it’s not associated with your VIN and is intended for analysis to continue to improve vehicle safety.
AFAIK that is location and audio, which while still creepy, is not nearly the same as pointing a camera at you.
Not sure why that seems so rare.
1) Look for Tesla parked or parking
2) Either Follow or wait for Tesla owner, distract them long enough to exploit the vulnerability.
3) [No ambiguity this time actually]
4) Profit