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Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by enriquto on Sunday January 10, 2021 @05:15PM (#25720660)
Even worse is when you know the exact file name that you want to open, and the interface fights against you writing it! For example I want to open /tmp/a.png, but there's thousands of files on /tmp and the cursor disappears while "loading" them, and and some characters of the file name are lost, or typed on different parts of the interface.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by kaszanka on Sunday January 10, 2021 @05:28PM (#25720821)
Recursive search instead of type-ahead search within one directory in the file picker is criminally terrible. I don't think there is any implementation of a file picker that behaves like this (other than Gtk's).
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by skrap on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:37PM (#25721670)
Is this https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 ? It really bothers me as well.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by klodolph on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:59AM (#25726030)
I use Linux, macOS, and Windows on a regular basis. I use mostly default settings, only a couple changes. Over time my settings move closer and closer to defaults. I tell people to upgrade their OS (with a couple exceptions). I was on-board with GNOME 3 when it came out (I was an Arch user at the time, but I’m in remission now).

The GTK file chooser dialog is easily the most garbage piece of fucking shit. Honestly, sometimes, if I want to post something online I just copy the file to my Mac first just to avoid dealing with the fucking piece of shit GTK file chooser. If I need to sort through a bunch of files, easier to run Samba and sort through them on my Mac, because Nautilus was scooped out of the same fucking pile of shit than the GTK file chooser was scooped from.

As far as I can tell, the last time that browsing files on macOS really changed was 2007, when 10.5 came out and had Quick Look. Since then, browsing files on Linux has somehow gotten worse. Do you know what it’s like on macOS? Every once in a while, Apple quietly adds support for previewing a couple more formats.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by kaszanka on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:45PM (#25721770)
Yes. As you can see, this is by design.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by philsnow on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:58PM (#25721928)
This is in my experience emblematic of GNOME in general. I've shaken the dust off my sandals and don't use anything gnome-y if I can avoid it.

Here's the thing that convinced me, a while back: https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAske...

I'm sure there's people here who are long-time contributors and/or supporters. Just ignore me, I'm not your target audience. ... I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by throwdbaaway on Sunday January 10, 2021 @09:37PM (#25723649)
> I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though.

We should ask Havoc Pennington about this, he must have names for all the personas that he came up with, after reading "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum": https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-Dece...

I actually have a copy of the book, and it is indeed a good book. The problem is that it somehow empowers GNOME developers to keep creating/maintaining/rewriting broken software, all in the name of "usability".

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by Renevith on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:58PM (#25722717)
Holy crap. It reads like a parody written by someone who read this thread and article. I was thinking it couldn't be as bad as people we're saying, but it's worse!
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baybal2 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:55PM (#25721898)
> Free software development is not a democracy, and does not get driven by polls. Features and bugs are introduced by those who show up, within a community that works towards a shared goal.

And it is exactly to let themselves yell that, they work hard to alienate few normal devs left in the project.

I understood now that Gnome 3.0 was from the start Redhat's fully intentional attempt to appropriate the project, and is not dissimilar to Microsoft's embrace, extend, extinguish.

1. Get command of some more abandoned parts of the project.

2. Push a series of guaranteedly unpopular sharp direction changes which will lead to loss of devs.

3. As devs leave, you get more reinforcement to your casus belli, saying that "nobody maintains this pile of garbage, so now I am taking it over too"

4. Rinse, and repeat.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:00PM (#25722731)
Please do not spread these unfounded conspiracy theories. If you are a developer and you don't agree with direction changes, you don't have to work on them, you can work in the direction of your choosing. AFAIK there are numerous forks of GNOME over the years that are still going.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by int_19h on Sunday January 10, 2021 @10:56PM (#25724275)
The problem is that GNOME is not just a DE. By virtue of being a project that's used by RedHat and Ubuntu, it's the closest thing to the standard DE that desktop Linux has at the moment.

Worse yet, its developers consciously make design decisions that make it hard to write applications that play well with GNOME without taking a dependency on it - their take on it seems to be that GNOME is a platform, and their main interest is supporting "GNOME apps", even to the detriment of all the rest.

Between these two things, deficiencies in GNOME affect a lot of people who didn't necessarily choose to be affected.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by pjmlp on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:25AM (#25725365)
Plus Gtk gets picked by several cross platform runtimes, e.g. Java, Uno, Xamarin, wxWidgets, as the "official" UI on Linux.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:50AM (#25728815)
I'm not sure what you expect can be done about that. Every desktop is going to have its own set of features and APIs that other desktops don't. That's what they mean by "platform." Should e.g. KDE developers spend less time working on their own features and start contributing more to GNOME, to make GNOME apps work better in KDE, and vice versa? Maybe, but they would have to take the initiative to do it.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by int_19h on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @02:07PM (#25751780)
Having unique features is fine, of course. It's when GNOME goes out of its way to make it impossible for DE-agnostic apps to "do the right thing" for ideological reasons, when every other DE supports some kind of lowest common denominator. Here's one famous historical example:

https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685

"I guess you have to decide if you are a GNOME app, an Ubuntu app, or an XFCE app unfortunately ... It is my hope that you are a GNOME app."

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:57PM (#25781613)
I don't see how that is an example of ideological reasons, or how that contradicts what I said. It seems like exactly what I was saying -- GNOME, Ubuntu and XFCE all have their own separate APIs for things. I've seen that issue posted here and on reddit so many times and I never understood why anyone considers it any more significant than all the other times a random open source project removed a deprecated API or did an incompatible version bump. Yes, I get it, it's frustrating when upstream is a moving target, but that's exactly what he's saying. You can choose to follow the moving target or you can target a platform that moves slower.

And because I have to keep saying this, that is a non-issue now anyway. XFCE supports the new app indicator protocol, and since Ubuntu dropped unity their support for it is available as a standard GNOME extension: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/615/appindicator-supp...

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by int_19h on Sunday January 17, 2021 @03:48AM (#25809229)
Others strive to have APIs that are either compatible across DEs, or there is a way for a DE-agnostic app to feautre-detect and use it when it's available. GNOME is the only project that simply doesn't care about DE-agnostic apps, and ends up making their life more difficult than anybody else. The app indicator issue is brought up time and again, because the comments on it from the GNOME developers make their attitude crystal clear. That this particular issue has been resolved since then is not important - there have been more since, and there will inevitably be more in the future, since, again - they do not care.

If you sincerely believe that it's okay to have a single DE be a self-contained app platform with no interop, that's up to you - but do understand that this is a very debatable premise, and people who don't agree with it have very good reasons to be annoyed with GNOME.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baybal2 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:07PM (#25722812)
> If you are a developer and you don't agree with direction changes, you don't have to work on them

I would tell the same to Poettering, Clasen, and co.

There is really nobody who obligates them to work on their "innovations" in GNOME with religious zeal if the rest of the project showed no interest, speaking lightly.

If nobody wants to work on their stuff, they can't claim "victimhood" as if that happens as a result of somebody's ill intents.

I have to reference Torvalds vs. SystemD here as an example how Sievers, Poettering, and co. instantly drew up a picture of kernel community being some kind of a bullying ring when the only thing they did to them was to ignore their (bad quality) patches.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:15PM (#25722872)
I would advise holding off judgement on specific individuals unless you have worked with them closely and you have a deep understanding of why certain decisions were made.

Again, if you are a developer and you disagree with someone's choices, you are free to take it in your own direction. You do not have to work on anybody else's stuff if you don't want.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:28PM (#25723003)
> I would advise holding off judgement on specific individuals unless you have worked with them closely and you have a deep understanding of why certain decisions were made.

Is this advice meant to be applied against all people, or just other developers? I certainly wouldn't apply this standard to RIAA lawyers suing kids. I judge them to be worms even though I never worked with them. And don't even get me started on politicians, I've never worked with one but I certainly feel entitled to have harsh opinions about some of them.

If the advice is limited in scope to professional peers, then I have to disagree with it; having double standards for people like yourself isn't great advice.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by scaramanga on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:14AM (#25726137)
> Is this advice meant to be applied against all people, or just other developers? I certainly wouldn't apply this standard to RIAA lawyers suing kids. I judge them to be worms even though I never worked with them. And don't even get me started on politicians

These developers do not wield power over anyone and they are not filing lawsuits. They are developing code, either as their job, or as volunteers. And in either case, contributing their work as open source.

It might help to take a little perspective before publicly passing judgement on _individuals_ and what you imagine their intentions to be rather than merely judging the merit of their contributions. Those are completely different things.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Monday January 11, 2021 @05:03AM (#25726849)
What I'm talking about really has nothing to do with power. Maybe the examples I chose suggested that power dynamics are relevant to my point, but I think they aren't, so here is another example without one: Should an architect refrain from judging Frank Lloyd Wright just because they never worked together? I think certainly not. That seems completely backwards to me. Anybody is entitled to have an opinion on Frank Lloyd Wright, another architect particularly so.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by scaramanga on Monday January 11, 2021 @11:03AM (#25730726)
Are you talking about judging his contributions and significance to architecture or his worth as a person?

I get that the two things have some overlap and aren't cleanly divisible. What we do is a major part of who we are.

But I mean, it's one thing to say "I think it [his architecture] is awful", or even "I think his architecture had a negative impact on people/society/cherished values/whatever" but quite another to say "I think he sought the ruination of everything good and decent because he was a demented and feeble mind." Because, yes, I do think the last one would only be appropriate if you actually knew something about the guy...

Edit: And yeah, of course, I'm not trying to censor anyone's opinions. Of course you can _have_ the opinion, you can even express it. I just think that it's not what engaging in productive/civil discourse looks like and, depending on the venue, people may call that out or whatever.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:36PM (#25736282)
I am not talking about judging his 'worth as a person'; rather his 'worth as a developer.' Maybe in his private life he's a wonderful person, who knows? Who cares? It is his professional activities that concern people.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:35PM (#25739745)
You are of course welcome to have an opinion, and to choose whatever product you want based on that opinion. But if the extent of your opinion is "this person is a jerk and their work is terrible and not to my taste" that is unlikely to convince that person to change course, especially if they don't know you and if the decision is already made.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by scaramanga on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:59AM (#25760515)
Furthermore, the "this person is a jerk" part is clearly not part of some dispassionate evaluation of his professional accomplishments and is just a verbal attack couched in the language of professional criticism.

I suspect that, in many instances, people who do that are not trying to convince anybody of anything. If they expected to be greeted everywhere with agreement then they would not go around saying things which they know perfectly well are not likely to result in a vigorous and healthy debate if they were said to strangers in the street :)

[dead]
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by dang on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @03:23PM (#25752974)
We've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with, no matter how strongly you feel about something or someone. We're trying for something else here because it's the only way to keep the site interesting.

From some of your other comments I gather that you've been around this material for a long time and you know a lot about it. Why not share some of what you know, so others can learn? and make your substantive points thoughtfully? Then you'll be making this place more interesting, and your points will have some persuasive power. Just venting only adds energy and credibility to the views you disagree with.

I get that there's a low probability this argument will work with you but I think it's worth trying to persuade people that it's in their own interest to follow the rules, which are designed to try to keep a community that's interesting for everybody:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Sunday January 10, 2021 @09:00PM (#25723318)
For me, it applies to everyone. I try hard to not hold a grudge. It's difficult but emotionally rewarding.

If we are trying to be good open source citizens and avoid unnecessary fights, you can apply it just to that.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by circularfoyers on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:07AM (#25725221)
I just want to say that what you said here and in your other comments in this thread resonated with me in how you approached dissecting issues like ones that have been discussed here. I wish there were more people like you and it's a characteristic I hope I can be more like as well.

I respect that you are willing to admit you don't know the full history and implore others to understand why for example, certain decisions were made. It seems as if many people love to theorize about what these are, making correlations which are usually driven more by their feelings than reality.

I feel like character assassination was a phrase that I feel aptly describes how I've seen a lot of people treat people like Lennart Poettering. I feel as if some people are unable to separate person from their opinions. Not considering that person like they are more likely to do so if they were in person.

I sometimes feel like this attitude is more strongly felt by some people in a community where there is freedom to take a project in another direction if they desired (I know that not everyone has this option).

I do think however that the article of this thread expresses their opinion on an issue in a way that it explains how it effects them without resorting to emotional attacks towards the project and it's something I really liked about reading it.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:59AM (#25728912)
I just don't want our community to turn to conspiracy theorizing and conjecture. We can do better.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by sergeykish on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:55AM (#25728869)
I think people believe Linux is community driven project, while in reality it is strongly corporate backed. Just look at kernel contributions [1]. I think same applies to most of the infrastructure, someone works on FreeType, Cairo, Pango, etc.

In such case disjoint between users and developers is even further. I am professional developer, yet I have zero contributions to my framework and just a few contributions to libraries. After 10 years my contributions to Linux community limited to bug reports, few patches and manuals.

In reality there is not enough community support to maintain existing systems. "Freedom to take a project in another direction if they desired" by individual is overrated, that's TempleOS.

EDITED: Some bragging about making a difference

There are a lot of projects with less corporate influence. No systemd on BSD, but hardware support is not as good. Generic distributions is something that works for most of the users. There are a lot of niche distributions and projects (Void Linux runit!). Current state is just a reflection of users priorities.

[1] https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:08AM (#25728994)
Sorry if it was not clear, by take it in another direction I generally mean find funding, get hired by someone else to work on it, or start another company to work on it if there is enough of a business opportunity there. It's very hard to make significant changes to a large codebase without a team of people.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by addicted on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:54PM (#25723265)
This advice definitely applies to open source developers whose work is out completely in the open.

You can literally take millions of lines of code that they may have written wholesale, and change a single word in it that you don’t like.

In open source, they have nowhere to hide. If you disagree with a certain decision they have made, you are welcome to take the effort they have put in to implement the hundreds and thousands of other decisions they have made that you do agree with, with a simple “git clone”.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baybal2 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:24PM (#25722968)
> if you are a developer and you disagree with someone's choices, you are free to take it in your own direction.

That would be best said to persons named above.

They were free to fork GNOME into their touchscreen based imaginary future, and experiment with it even more freely as a minority group, rather than trying to hijack the project, and getting stalled half-way because of popular pushback.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:28PM (#25723005)
>trying to hijack the project, and getting stalled half-way because of popular pushback

Again, please do not spread these unfounded conspiracy theories. I can explain more what I mean by this, but it seems unlikely you are willing to hear what I have to say. I can tell you if you're trying to convince me to be hostile towards any specific developers for any specific project, I will have to decline to get involved with that. You don't have to resort to character assassination, if you have some ideas on a good technical direction for a project, just make the argument and write the code: people will listen if your arguments are sound and your code works.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baybal2 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:35PM (#25723077)
It's not a conspiracy theory.

GNOME 2 was a project of 100+ developers.

TOPAZ was a half-baked tablet UI tech demo from a dozen Red Hat employed devs, later dropping to 7-9 regularly active ones.

Tell me what is more to explain about this?

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:51PM (#25723222)
I personally don't know the full history; you might consider looking for some old blog posts or politely contacting a GNOME developer for an explanation of the history. From what I understand, the run up to mobile was a major source of funding for GNOME 2 from several mobile companies, and that's where all the developers came from, but most of those companies were not able to keep up and failed to iOS/Android. So the funding dried up and Red Hat was one of the few companies that happened to survive because of their other business. That's what I've heard but you should talk to more people who were actually involved in the project back then if you want a more complete answer. (Please assume good faith and don't be hostile, we're all friends here, these are just developers trying to pay the bills like the rest of us)
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by sergeykish on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:14AM (#25727421)
There was a story recently, On the Graying of Gnome, comment by boudewijnrempt [1]:

> The reason is simple: Nokia. Nokia (and to a much lesser extent, Intel) built up a lot for Maemo and Meego. Just for KOffice/Calligra, at least twenty people were paid to work on the documents application. For all of Maemo/Meego, the total number of people Nokia funded was enormous.

> And then Elop, and the burning platform, and Windows, and well, that was 2012.

> By 2014, my company was dead, amongst others, and, yeah, the peak had peaked, and the big chance for free software had gone.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25489580

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by cycloptic on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:55AM (#25728863)
Thank you, I figured there was a blog or comment somewhere with more info.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by pantalaimon on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:12AM (#25728416)
GNOME 2 was forked as MATE, but there is no funding for 100+ developers working on it.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:02PM (#25721980)
This sure seems accurate to me, from what I've personally observed, but I don't understand what motive they might have. What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it?
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baybal2 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:38PM (#25722436)
> What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it?

I think, in their view, all comes after taking hold of the project. But here, they got that, and now what? Now, all lofty plans have to meet the cold reality.

It's like a mutunineers on a ship throwing officers overboard, just to realise hours later that they are in the middle of an ocean, and they have no idea how to sail a ship without skilled crew.

I saw that happening in public companies: a single asshole activist with puny few percents of the company keeps throwing big radical decisions onto every shareholder meeting, until he gets everybody so discombobulated, or the company so disfunctional that others either leave the company to him for taking, or he gets a legal casus belli to sue the company to try to wreck it further, and then seize it.

For such people, it doesn't matter if the company in question dies, as long as they come out with gain. Some are plainly idiots with too much legal education, and some are genuine degenerates doing it with full knowledge of consequences.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by baud147258 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:24PM (#25722242)
> What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it?

they'd be the only left able to offer (paid) support?

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:17PM (#25722897)
Does GNOME really bring in much paid support momey? In the past I have worked at a company that did have RHEL5 workstations with GNOME by default, but everybody I knew treated that as a joke and sshed into the workstations from their (Windows) Thinkpads or Macbooks. The desktop software on those workstations was unwanted and unused.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by lmm on Sunday January 10, 2021 @10:57PM (#25724280)
That sounds like the ideal situation for RedHat's business model.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by Chyzwar on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:16AM (#25725737)
A lot of people like it. Just because there are old timers that cannot move past gnome 2 it do not mean that Gnome 3 is bad. It faster and more polished that KDE. Workspace management and screen real estate is supierior to anything I used.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by stretchcat on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:41PM (#25736406)
I believe the 'graying of GNOME' discussed here a few weeks ago is evidence that fewer and fewer people like GNOME each year. New developers would naturally be drawn from the ranks of enthusiastic users. (Why would a developer volunteer their labor for software they don't use and care about?) The graying of GNOME shows that the pool of enthusiastic users has been shrinking since GNOME 3. That's about when GNOME tipped over the edge and started losing developers faster than it gained new ones. The missing new developers would be new developers, not old timers. If it were only old timers who feel alienated, I wouldn't expect GNOME to have trouble recruiting new developers.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by Chyzwar on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @03:39AM (#25743969)
Gnome 3 is default for most popular distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL, Debian etc) If anything gnome is getting more popular thanks to Ubuntu switching.

There fewer people contributing because programming in C is no longer fun or hip. It is not Gnome problem but the whole Linux ecosystem. Gnome is slowly adopting rust but the core framework is still C. There is plenty of active forks of Gnome2 people can contribute there.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by arpa on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:23AM (#25725356)
Screw Red Hat, the amound of crapware and bad attitudes coming from them is astounding. And of course, since they have big bucks, it gets shoved down everyones' throats.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by sergeykish on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:26AM (#25727520)
The amount of their contributions is astounding https://www.redhat.com/en/about/open-source-program-office/c...
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by mard on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:58AM (#25726821)
The lack of typeahead in GtkFileChooser is my biggest annoyance that I've ever come across. Ever since I started using computers nearly 25 years ago I used typeahead to navigate through directories and I can't imagine doing it otherwise. The idea of removing typeahead is anti-human to me, I couldn't adapt even though I really tried to.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by jopsen on Monday January 11, 2021 @05:37AM (#25727110)
Yeah, the first thing I do after installing Linux has always been to replace nautilus with something else.

Nautilus is pretty, and for the most part fairly nice. But lacking typeahead just makes it unusable.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by vidarh on Monday January 11, 2021 @07:23AM (#25727971)
Which makes me think the biggest problem with the file selector as described is not that it's flawed, but that it's hard to replace.

One of the thing I loved about the Amiga was that because of how the API was structured, it was easy to replace things like this, as you could patch every API endpoint. As a result, it took very little time before more advanced replacements for the standard file requester appeared. You "just" had to patch (via OS-provided functions) a couple of library calls.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by Rompect on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:54AM (#25727752)
So true. That is the biggest concern that I have with Linux overall.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by ziotom78 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:54PM (#25724695)
I have found a (cumbersome) solution to this using Xfce. Its Thunar file manager does implement type-ahead, so whenever I need to open a file that is saved in some deeply-nested folder, I open Thunar (using a custom shortcut, Ctrl+Alt+E) and quickly navigate to the file using type-ahead and press Ctr+L to copy its full path to the clipboard, then I switch to my app and paste the address.

For complex paths, I found that this is the quickest way to open the file I want.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by efaref on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:44AM (#25725517)
Using TFA's analogy, that's a workaround where you use the neighbour's toilet.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by ziotom78 on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:43AM (#25725916)
Exactly!!! :-)
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by garaetjjte on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:32PM (#25722371)
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by dm319 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:49PM (#25721814)
Yup - one of the many reasons I needed to stay on MATE.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by dleslie on Sunday January 10, 2021 @10:24PM (#25723991)
MATE continues to be fantastic; I see no reason to switch.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by ziotom78 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:56PM (#25724717)
It has been a long time since I tried MATE. Do you mean that the file dialog does not implement recursive search?

If it is so, then I must consider switching! (At the moment I am using Xfce.)

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by pizza234 on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:46AM (#25726746)
MATE's based on GTK, so it inherits all the GTK "features", last but not least, the v3 file chooser, which lost along the way the create new folder key binding, and the quick search by prefix (which now has to be inconveniently performed on the address bar).

Additionally, programs may rely on different GTK versions, which also makes things confusing. For example, Visual Studio Code and Firefox use GTK3.

edit: extended with programs explanation

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by dm319 on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:31AM (#25727562)
Oh darn. I don't have a problem on my UbuntuMATE, but realised I'm still on 18.04. At least caja seems sane?
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by pantalaimon on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:18AM (#25728486)
Caja retains all the features of Gnome 2's Nautilus and gained a few more.

I actually like background textures for my file manager, so i'm happy this stayed.

But there is also tabbed and two pane view which got axed from Nautilus too.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by ziotom78 on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:48AM (#25726763)
Sigh, I feared this answer! :-(
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by uncledave on Sunday January 10, 2021 @05:48PM (#25721066)
That one really really really pissed me off because it’s a task I expect to do tens of times a day. Also it has some serious focus loss issues in that space where you’ll have to tab or click something again.

I must have installed a Linux distribution 100 times with the intent of using it as a desktop and lasted less than a day every time. I’ve been doing it since 1998. Literally something that horrible punches me in the face every time.

I refer back to my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25678434

I bought a Mac now. I’m too old for the fight.

Everything I do server side is on Linux but the desktop is vile and I want no part of it any more.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by invsblduck on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:06AM (#25726474)
> I bought a Mac now. I’m too old for the fight.

I said the same a decade ago. As of last week, I'm back on X11... chipping away at configs for hours and hours and hours.

But I have libnotify popups now. :D

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by 1_player on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:12AM (#25727393)
And if it goes like it did for me, that smile will turn upside down in a month and you'll format your Linux partition and move to WSL2 on Windows even if you haven't used it in 20 years. That's it, I'm done.

At least now I only have to put up with a slightly dated and crufty interface but I can use my PC to full potential - gaming AND work AND working bluetooth. Crazy huh?

In my case, I also managed to notice that my computer is much faster than it ever was on Linux, which is nice. If I had an old Core 2 Duo Linux would make it fly, but alas, I can afford a modern PC.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by uncledave on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:02AM (#25728933)
Yeah I've got a hefty PC here too running Windows. WSL2 is wonderful until you get your first Hyper-V bugcheck, filesystem corruption or weird ass network issue to debug. It's really not very good. I used it from day one and WSL1 before that which was even more horrible (NT impedance mismatch was obvious)

The compromise for me before migrating to Mac was using Windows on the desktop with Ubuntu VMs in Virtualbox. I had whole clusters running on my desktop.

Windows 10 is fairly decent on most hardware I have found. If they finished off all the little quality issues, had a decently integrated mobile ecosystem and stopped all the telemetry bullshit I'd be there now. I had some hope back in 2015ish when I was full time windows desktop dev with WP handset etc. Alas the world moved on so I dug the old Unix hat out.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by 1_player on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:15AM (#25729063)
Mac is great, I would use it full time if Jobs and Apple hadn't decided gaming is for kids. It's my hobby, especially now that I'm locked home, and being unable to play the latest PC game is an unacceptable compromise for me. No, a console is not what I'm looking for.

So in that case, Windows is the best compromise. And while I'm still in the proprietary world, I'm outside the walled garden.

In any case, I haven't hit any WSL2 bug or corruption in these 6 months (nor blue screen), so fingers crossed.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by uncledave on Monday January 11, 2021 @11:20AM (#25731031)
Yes I keep my PC for games as well.

I wish you continued fortune with WSL2.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by bmn__ on Monday January 11, 2021 @07:31AM (#25728037)
Run `kcmshell5 kwinoptions` or System Settings → section Workspace → item Window Management → subitem Window Behaviour → tab Focus.

You are not allowed to complain about "Linux" when your beef is really about Gnome.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by uncledave on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:07AM (#25728993)
If I use KDE I'm still subjected to GTK and Freedesktop for stuff I use which is where all the bugs live. But then I have more inconsistencies between Qt and GTK so in fixing it that way I now have two problems.

Linux itself is fine. It's the layers of shit smeared on top that are not.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by FridgeSeal on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:52PM (#25723238)
Oh my god I had excised this from my memory.

So many times I would go to a folder, start typing the name of a file/sub folder that I knew was there and it was like “nope! Let’s instead search whatever default directory instead. Apparently this behaviour is by design and alternatives won’t be considered. (This was when I was using Ubuntu 18/19?) at some point they changed a bunch of default things in the UI interface (including getting rid of what I considered was the far superior previous lock screen manager).

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by dn3500 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:10PM (#25721348)
Or when you have the full path name already and want to paste it in to GtkFileChooser. It turns out this is possible, but you'd never know it from the UI.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by mmwelt on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:49PM (#25723205)
Thank you for that hint! I always thought it wasn't possible, so I didn't even try typing.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by ju-st on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:13PM (#25721374)
The Windows folder chooser dialogue has this problem as well.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by for_xyz on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:36PM (#25721650)
Old one yes. New one (since win vista) allows you to pick folders.

  pFileOpen->SetOptions(FOS_PICKFOLDERS | FOS_PATHMUSTEXIST | FOS_ALLOWMULTISELECT);
 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/shobjidl_...
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by edoceo on Sunday January 10, 2021 @06:52PM (#25721855)
IME users aren't doing a lot of C
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by eznzt on Sunday January 10, 2021 @07:10PM (#25722071)
That API is accessible from any language.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by vel0city on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:10PM (#25735748)
There's been some changes and refinements since Windows 3.1. The current default file chooser dialogue shipped with Windows allows you to put in a full path into both the top file path or in the Filename dialog.

Reference photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_dialog#/media/File:An_%22...

In this, a full path can be pasted in to both the top bar where it says "This PC > WINDOWS (C:)" and also into the blank "File name: | |" box.

I'm pretty sure I remember this dialogue being available since NT days. It seems fairly discoverable to me, clicking in the empty space of the current working directory path changes it to show the text path of the directory. The "File name" box offers autocomplete if you did something like "C:" as a file name, or started typing a folder name of the current working directory.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by steerablesafe on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:51AM (#25726778)
Type ctrl+L first. Don't you love how discoverable these UI tricks are?
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by salawat on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:20AM (#25728508)
This is why if you're smart, you hide that behind a short timer to pick up the pause. Tuning it just right can be a pain, but hooking natural behavior as an indicator of needing assistance increases the UI bandwidth in terms of signaling. It's the little details.
Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by benibela on Monday January 11, 2021 @05:57AM (#25727250)
In an older version there was autocompletion for typing.

You could type /tmp/a. and it would autocomplete it to /tmp/a.png

It is a good idea, but I type too fast. So I would write /tmp/a.png and then the autocompletion triggered and replace it with /tmp/a.pngpng

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by enriquto on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:40AM (#25727639)
> You could type /tmp/a. and it would autocomplete it to /tmp/a.png > > It is a good idea, but I type too fast. So I would write /tmp/a.png and then the autocompletion triggered and replace it with /tmp/a.pngpng

This is so sad.

Autocompletion of filenames should work perfectly no matter the conditions. If "ls" can list tens of thousands of files in a fraction of a second, there's no reason that autocomplete has some delay. I can see why this happens, maybe you have a thousand images in /tmp and the file picker is opening them all to compute their thumbnails (which in my opinion is useless, but whatever). Then it uses quite a few kernel threads and it clogs the system, making the completion to fail. But it sounds like this problem should was already solved many years ago, and that modern "improvements" of the file picker made it fail.

Re:GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets... by lazulicurio on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:54PM (#25741269)
This exact issue is actually what prompted me to switch to Kubuntu/KDE. It's still not perfect out of the box, but it's matched my expectations way better than recent versions of GNOME have.