I am moving to Signal too. Group by Group. May not happen over night, but in few weeks

How well do Signal groups work these days? I tried moving friend groups to signal some years ago and even managed to do that for some large ones but the group chat just didn't really work. Keys changed and somehow the group got into a state where some people got messages and others didn't and the only way to fix it seemed to be creating a new group which, for large groups, isn't really an option and everyone ended up going back to whatsapp.

I'd love to use signal with more people but that, and the ux around changing phones means I can't really recommend it to anyone but the most technical of my friends.

Signal, that's another one that requires your phone number?

Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

Don't they all? But good news is that they have pushed code to allow for usernames (or not even that). It isn't open to the public (or beta) yet, but it looks like the feature is going to be released fairly soon.

> Don't they all?

That's my point. I hate systems that require a phone number, as they usually mean that I have a substandard experience when I'm not on my phone and I can't sign my children up so that we have a general chat tool.

The only option ends up being massively over the top team style chats like Rocketchat, Mattermost, Discord, or Slack. So we end up back on Hangouts.

A bit shit for general family conversation.

[Edit] If they do allow signing up/in with a username then I'll probably be all over it. That would be awesome news.

I'm curious why you value your phone number over your data.

I'm unsure if they will allow signups without phone numbers, but they don't store that information. Signal doesn't have it. [0][1] It is very possible they go around this though.

[0] https://signal.org/blog/looking-back-as-the-world-moves-forw...

[1] (time-stamped to only the important part) https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=894&v=Nj3YFprqAr8&feature=yo...

Reasons:

> they usually mean that I have a substandard experience when I'm not on my phone

> I can't sign my children up so that we have a general chat tool.

This isn't a privacy thing, this is a general tool that is fundimentally broken if I'm not on my phone.

I'm not always on my phone, and my kids don't have phone numbers.

They are unusable.

I think these are fair points. I'll mention that I predominately use the desktop client and it works well since I frequently leave my phone somewhere else. But doesn't seem like a right fit for you until usernames and multiple device signup. Both are in the works though so maybe good for you in the future but not now.

If you don't have your phone with you, you can't sign in. Some services, like Whatsapp, will not work if your phone is turned off/broken

> I predominately use the desktop client and it works well since I frequently leave my phone somewhere else.

In my experience the desktop client is slow, buggy, and takes eons to start up. There's also no web version, making it awkward to use on computers other than your own.

I would be more willing to switch over to Signal if it wasn't so lacking in this regard.

> Don't they all?

No. Threema does not require a phone number (it uses one for the registration verification, but your account is not linked to that number).

So can I use 1 number to create 2 users?

https://briarproject.org/ https://getsession.org/

Threema doesn't.

See elsewhere in this discussion why Signal is not much better:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25668547

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669657

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25668659

Er, The third link doesn't even support your argument and the first two links are written by the same author.

-

Signal IS much better.

It's a nonprofit, not a commerical company.

There are arguments for and against centralized systems and forks of apps. The lead dev of Signal is concerned about interoperability; but still leaves users the option of doing things the way they would like with the open source code; it's just not 'supported™'

In the third link, look at the replies. Matrix is much better than Signal, because it solves all the problems listed in my links.

How did the Covid lockdowns and family crisis in your examples affect the choice between Whatsapp and Signal?

If the only way to reach you is to either install Signal or wait until tomorrow when they see you in person, people wait until tomorrow.

If the only way to reach you is to either install Signal or wait a year until the lockdowns are over, people install Signal.

For my wife, she had to travel abroad and the family had to stay in contact with her. Since she absolutely wouldn't use WhatsApp, they all installed Signal, and discovered it's actually really usable now.

I can only speak for why one company adopted Signal over WhatsApp, but the main reason was that the company did not want their communication metadata tracked by Facebook. They were regarded as equivalent in terms of E2E encryption and functionality.

EDIT: They also did not trust Facebook entirely not to break the E2E in some way (eg cloud backups or whatever), and the message contents had to remain secure. It wasn't a huge concern, but all else being equal, Signal was the better choice.

So the solution is more crises.

but can you do video calls on Signal?

Yes, and in groups! This is a new feature though.

In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling.

edit: mass downvote! here are the links.

this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel...

https://www.securityweek.com/telegram-rivaling-tor-home-crim...

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2019/05/03/criminals-are-hi...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...

Nonsense.

Here are links that show that WhatsApp is painted as a tool for pedophiles:

* https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/whatsapp-has...

* https://www.businessinsider.com/whatsapp-has-a-child-porn-pr...

* https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/20/whatsapp-pornography/

* https://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/whatsapp-has-a-ch...

Source?

My friends and family have mostly been using Signal for over a year and we never had such worry. I also know laywers, lawmakers, doctors and CEOs who are also using Signal for important communications.

some links in dutch:

https://opgelicht.avrotros.nl/uitzending/gemist/item/bericht... https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/criminelen-handelen-op-berichte... https://www.security.nl/posting/586026/Politie+kraakt+versle...

That's absolute nonsense

Do you have an source for that claim. I am in Europe and have never heard that. The closest I know of is right wing groups using Telegramm for their Anti-Covid agitation.

updated GP

Sorry, I have now spent almost an hour reading 7 articles of yours and, from my point of view, none supports your claim. Framing implys for me that some other person publicly claims something although that is not really the case (i.e Telegramm is not popular with criminals), else, it is just reporting.

Neither could I find anything matching your second point that installing any of these messengers might make law enforcement suspect you to be a criminal.