News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by codefined on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:03PM (#25624724)
I currently host https://femto.pw/ - A URL shortener I've kept up for ~4 years and intend to indefinitely. It doesn't do anything with regards to tracking cookies or other dark patterns. It just redirects you using a 302 redirect.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Merman_Mike on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:32PM (#25624956)
FYI that your site is blocked by this list: https://gitlab.com/The_Quantum_Alpha/the-quantum-ad-list

HN post for that list here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25512273

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by miked85 on Sunday January 03, 2021 @06:16PM (#25626215)
That list is questionable at best.

There are many claims the list author makes without any source code at all, though a lot of buzzwords. The reddit r/pihole moderator pulled the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/pihole/comments/kh5dit/the_quantum_... . The thread was more entertaining before the list author deleted every downvoted comment they made.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Jap2-0 on Sunday January 03, 2021 @07:27PM (#25626670)
[0] is perhaps even more concerning - apparently it bears a striking resemblance to Steven Black's (slightly more reputable) list[1] [edit: plus a few hundred thousand other rules of questionable sourcing].

[0] https://gitlab.com/The_Quantum_Alpha/the-quantum-ad-list/-/i...

https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts/issues/1487

[1] https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Merman_Mike on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:17PM (#25627300)
I agree that it's questionable. I commented the same in the thread I linked: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25513161

However, at least for Pi-Hole users, more is usually better, so I added the list to my Pi-Hole.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by phire on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:34PM (#25627406)
> > We were testing an AI that could show some basic emotions about internet content, and turns out it was very precise at getting “annoyed” by ads and “unsolicited” third party connections…

Holy shit that's such bullshit.

They are basically claiming they invented a artificial general intelligence, with feelings, that happens to feel the same way about ads as us. It's basically sentient instead of publishing research papers, they turned it into an ad blocker.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by srtjstjsj on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:06AM (#25628089)
It's just colorful language for the fact that ads and spyware score high on their model for bad websites.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by phire on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:53AM (#25628713)
First: Marketing bullshit is still bullshit.

Even if it's not morally wrong, it makes you look like an idiot who doesn't understand the technology you are selling. In the worst case it might even be used as evidence that your work is a fraud.

There is no benefit; To the lay person, It would sound just as impressive to say "We trained a machine learning model to detect ads and spyware" and that wouldn't immediately set off alarm bells with people familiar with the current state of machine learning.

Second: Talking about fraud, the evidence linked above is pretty strong.

Their alleged AI is somehow detecting test domains that authors of other lists as "ads or spyware". Test domains that aren't linked anywhere on the internet.

In one "smoking gun" example, the test domain doesn't even have a DNS entry. The alleged AI can't even load the domain to scan it.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by llacb47 on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:35PM (#25627408)
No, more is not usually better. Especially with a garbage ""AI-generated"" (not) list with untrustworthy maintainers like this one. It's better to add a low number of lists with trusted maintainers, who actively curate their lists and respond to false positives. That means no "mega-list" abominations like oisd.nl.

I suggest: https://www.github.developerdan.com/hosts/

https://gitlab.com/curben/urlhaus-filter/raw/master/urlhaus-...

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/notracking/hosts-blocklist...

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/anudeepND/blacklist/master...

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Merman_Mike on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:44PM (#25627744)
Can you explain why more is not usually better?

I added the 4 lists you recommended to my Pi-Hole, which added a net new 73,253 domains to my Pi-Hole. My total is now close to 2M.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by PixyMisa on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:17AM (#25628125)
You could just blacklist *.com and be done with it.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by freebuju on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:30AM (#25628619)
You joke but I would be most happy if all my web needs could be served on .onion addresses
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by codefined on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:03PM (#25625668)
Hm, well I've got to work out how to get off that list! Thanks for giving me the heads up.

EDIT: I'm not sure quite how to deal with being put on ad lists. Sure, people can upload any file to our host so it's plausible that someone, at some point, has uploaded an advert. Someone could also redirect to an advert domain and we'd have no way to really deal with that unless it was reported. Ideas are welcome for solutions.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Hnrobert42 on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:15PM (#25625743)
Just some thoughts:

1. Reach out to the list maintainer to see why your site was added.

2. Create a blocklist comprised of those ad lists. Don’t redirect to sites on the blocklist.

3. (Of dubious practical value) Create a Terms of Service that says users may not use your to link to advertisements.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Merman_Mike on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:47PM (#25625976)
+1 to the second suggestion as a low-effort way to make some headway in staying off blocklists.

A place to start might be this large, very popular list that combines a bunch of other lists: https://oisd.nl/

Actual text file is here (large file warning): https://hosts.oisd.nl/

Just prevent your service from shortening links to any of those domains.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by rndomsrmn on Monday January 04, 2021 @06:03AM (#25629796)
You might want to consider checking for hosts listed in https://github.com/notracking/hosts-blocklists

This is an excellent merged blocklist, with public whitelist (oisd is fully closed, no insight in what is whitelisted and why, also causing more false positives..)

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by sjhgvr on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:48PM (#25637689)
No longer the case: https://oisd.nl/excludes.php
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by llacb47 on Tuesday January 05, 2021 @03:13AM (#25643330)
Right on time, sjhgvr can't allow his rep to be (rightly) blemished on any corner of the internet.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by TylerE on Sunday January 03, 2021 @06:25PM (#25626291)
> 3. (Of dubious practical value) Create a Terms of Service that says users may not use your to link to advertisements.

That seems entirely unenforceable. Aren't ALL websites ultimately advertisements?

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by recursive on Sunday January 03, 2021 @07:30PM (#25626691)
> Aren't ALL websites ultimately advertisements?

No. Some are just information, art, or what-have-you. Here's one I just found now.

https://aaron.axvigs.com/

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by TylerE on Sunday January 03, 2021 @07:37PM (#25626737)
That could still be considered an advertisement of his existence and writing skills.

If the goal is purely informational, why is the author's name attached?

The site also advertises the CMS it runs on.

That's my point, by a reasonable standard, ANY site that exists is an advertisement for something or other, thus a rule saying "no linking to advertisements" is worse than useless.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by kortilla on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:40PM (#25627435)
This must be the mindset it takes to work in the ad tech industry.

Ads are sort of like porn. There are lots of things you certainly know serve no other purpose than to advertise something and you can block them outright. Native advertising is certainly difficult though.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by TylerE on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:55PM (#25627503)
Do not work, nor I have I ever worked, in ad tech.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by recursive on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:43PM (#25627737)
I guess you have a different understanding of what "advertising" is than the general understanding.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by TylerE on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:45PM (#25627745)
advertising or ad·ver·tiz·ing [ ad-ver-tahy-zing ] - noun - the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by recursive on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:54PM (#25627791)
I believe it's possible for a website to exist without calling attention to anything.

Or perhaps you believe the mere existence of information is a call for attention.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by obventio56 on Sunday January 03, 2021 @11:26PM (#25627928)
Doesn’t all content exist to receive attention?

I think there would be exceptions, like test sites, personal experiments etc. that could make it on to the internet without seeking attention, but any content designed for consumption is attention-seeking.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by recursive on Sunday January 03, 2021 @11:41PM (#25627979)
> Doesn’t all content exist to receive attention?

Maybe. Attention can also be granted without it have been called there. There are also websites not designed for consumption.

If every website is advertising, then surely most of human discourse and activity would also be considered advertising. What's even the purpose of the word?

You're not going to convince me that everything is an ad, and I probably won't convince you either. I'm not interested in playing any further semantic word games. I'll read any replies you make if you choose to, but I have nothing more to offer in this thread.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by obventio56 on Monday January 04, 2021 @09:25AM (#25631681)
I agree that not everything is an ad. I think the parent comment is fairly trite.

I do believe all content made for consumption (even purely informational content) is attention-seeking.

Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by Moru on Monday January 04, 2021 @05:25AM (#25629554)
For me the problem is that you hide URL's that I can click on and have no idea where I end up. So I block all url-shorteners as a principle on my pi-hole.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by q3k on Sunday January 03, 2021 @04:42PM (#25625524)
What happens to it when you die? Do you have a contingency plan to export this data somewhere for archival purposes?
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by codefined on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:04PM (#25625678)
I've worked with the Internet Archive to ensure continuity if I get hit by a bus or anything. A list of all items that have been uploaded to the site will be provided to them if anything happens to me.
Re:URL shorteners set ad tracking cookies by jdc on Tuesday January 05, 2021 @03:25AM (#25643390)
Femto's links don't seem to unfurl on Facebook