News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by csomar on Saturday January 02, 2021 @08:24AM (#25612680)
So this bill is the beneficial ownership paper for the US? Am I the only one who think this requirement is as stupid as it gets. If you are a money launderer are you going to make an accurate disclosure? How does the US/Authorities check the validity of these disclosures?

As someone who went through the BO pain, I think it only added more paperwork load to small business/guys like me.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday January 02, 2021 @09:06AM (#25612900)
These laws have precedence, and the precedence shows benefits [1][2]. It would have also mitigated historical harms [3].

Note that American compliance is de-centralised. A $5+ million entity attracts a different level of scrutiny from banks, corporate registers and brokers than a no-revenue entity with an overseas signatory.

[1] https://knowledgehub.transparency.org/assets/uploads/helpdes...

[2] https://open.cmi.no/cmi-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2475354...

[3] https://www.jstor.org/stable/90012622

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by csomar on Saturday January 02, 2021 @09:41AM (#25613095)
My question might be stupid since you seem to be more versed in this subject. But if I incorporate in the US, how does the government/relevant bodies know that I am who I say I am in the BO?
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by someguydave on Saturday January 02, 2021 @10:13AM (#25613305)
I believe it is a criminal act under this law to lie about it (there are other laws that make it illeagal to lie on government forms), so you would be committing a paperwork process crime which USG loves to enforce. Signing the false form would literally be mailing evidence of a crime to FinCen.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Saturday January 02, 2021 @11:15AM (#25613744)
But if you are already a criminal... Would that matter?
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by jjk166 on Saturday January 02, 2021 @11:53AM (#25614104)
Al Capone committed a lot of crimes besides tax evasion, but he went to prison for the crime he could be convicted of.

The more offenses someone commits, the more likely they'll make a mistake committing one of them and get caught. Yeah most money launderers will have no moral qualms about lying on a form, but someone already on the fence might be dissuaded if the risk of getting convicted increases.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:05PM (#25614207)
True, lots of kingpins go down for off center charges.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by paulryanrogers on Saturday January 02, 2021 @11:56AM (#25614127)
My guess is that many people don't consider themselves all out criminals, just 'regular' folks skirting the edges of legality. So doing something undeniably illegal and on the record may discourage taking an action.

Or even if consciously criminal then one would want to minimize risk of getting discovered.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:04PM (#25614198)
My point was related to those already practicing money laundering. They already know it's illegal, what's one more criminal act? Once you are invested, it's not a problem.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by Digit-Al on Saturday January 02, 2021 @01:21PM (#25614970)
Something I think you are missing is that at the moment if the government is investigating potential money laundering and the trail leads to a shell company then the trail ends there. With the new law, if the company is registered to someone that doesn't exist then a felony has been committed and they can probably seize all the assets of the company.

If the criminals risk forfeiting their money they may look to other avenues instead of using American shell companies.

I very much doubt anyone is under the illusion that this will stop criminals trying to launder money through American companies, it just makes it easier to seize assets of potential laundering operations and to investigate sources.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by jounker on Saturday January 02, 2021 @01:20PM (#25614949)
Your lie has to pass scrutiny. Your lawyer also had to be willing to lie on paper. The companies who set up these fake corporations (with bogus boards) now have to supply a real person. If they don’t make an attempt to verify this information, then they become criminally liable too.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:17AM (#25622207)
Ummm, you don't anyone to fill business fillings for you in the US. So no, you don't need anyone else to lie, no need to add conspiracy to the charges.

Also, finding an attorney that is willing to lie, is very easy. How do you think all this stuff is already happening illegally now? ;)

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by someguydave on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @11:24PM (#25667262)
Right, so if government agents can’t string you up for your actual crime (which they probably suspect but cannot prove) then they can get you for lying on a government form.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by paulryanrogers on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:31PM (#25614444)
It still seems to raise their risk profile as the shells are more likely to get discovered unless they meet these new thresholds.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by TheCoelacanth on Saturday January 02, 2021 @09:09PM (#25618691)
"Never break two laws at once"
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:18AM (#25622212)
This had to be said by sometime who wasn't a career criminal. Lol!
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by theptip on Saturday January 02, 2021 @01:06PM (#25614802)
The same way any company performs anti-fraud checks.

And how this is done - check the provided information against a known-good database (there are plenty of services that you can pay for here). Perform random spot checks. Make sure that the UBO is filing taxes for this entity’s earnings. Etc.

I’m not claiming it’s perfect; fraud detection is a hard problem, and it’s also pretty obscure if you haven’t had to deal with it at your own company.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mtnGoat on Saturday January 02, 2021 @11:14AM (#25613736)
Exactly, just find another Patsy too put down as the beneficial owner and use them as a proxy. Cartels and people with money/power, don't ask you to do this for them, they tell you. This bill lacks teeth in so many ways. Requesting honesty from criminals is silly. Expecting the banking industry that has lobbied for this secrecy to play along, is also silly.

This is already happening and had been for years.

Source; I know people who laundered money for years in the Caribbean. One of the Patsy's is paying a lot of tax debt for the shell that was in his name.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by jjeaff on Saturday January 02, 2021 @06:44PM (#25617799)
This law isn't just for money launderers, it's for people hiding assets. For example, there are many criminals and despots that steal huge sums of money and then form shell companies in the US and buy real estate or other assets.

If the beneficial owner is falsified, then if that property comes under investigation, they stand to lose it. There are currently multiple $50m+ homes in places like BelAir or Beverly Hills that are owned by anonymous shell companies and they sit vacant year round. Some, after much investigation were found to be owned by foreign politicians. I suspect a large percentage of these properties are also from ill gotten gains.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by nullc on Saturday January 02, 2021 @08:31PM (#25618489)
> they stand to lose it.

If the source of the funds was unlawful, they'd lose it anyways.

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by jounker on Sunday January 03, 2021 @01:44AM (#25620050)
And as a guess, under the new law, if they have a fake owner, then the government can take the property because a documented crime has been committed, as opposed to hitting a brick wall when it encounters the shell company.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by mrkstu on Saturday January 02, 2021 @02:39PM (#25615722)
But making that 'patsy' the legal owner also increases the actual owner's risk profile. The Patsy has greater control and can redirect the money and is the legal 'owner' of the assets. That forces the non-legal owner to use someone they trust implicitly and someone closer to them generally, making them easier to tie back in a legal case.
Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by pas on Saturday January 02, 2021 @11:06AM (#25613676)
> If you are a money launderer are you going to make an accurate disclosure? How does the US/Authorities check the validity of these disclosures?

Someone has to file the paperwork. If you willingly misfile it, then you are an accomplice. The various offices that manage these papers also try to do minimal checks. Also if the filer is a professional agent/attorney they have strict requirements to keep various details about their clients. (Which are protected by attorney-client privilege, but if there's sufficient evidence then a judge can issue a warrant, so the investigation can try to follow the trail. So either the attorney was duped or it was complicit.)

Re:US passes anti-corruption law that effectively bans anony... by wombatpm on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:48PM (#25614629)
Government wants the information for tax purposes. If I sell a multi million dollar condo in Chicago, taxes have to be paid. If I sell an LLC that owns the same condo, no taxes are paid.