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Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @05:59AM (#25505031)
If you are looking here to improve your webcam because you started to do remote work, don't.

First try to improve lighting and audio.

Any camera will look bad in bad lighting. It is always better to first improve your lighting before you invest in a new camera. Use high CRI lightbulbs and ensure even source color temperature in your room (ie. all lightbulbs should be emitting same color temperature).

Audio is also very important. It is processed by different parts of brain and we don't put so much attention to it but the quality will influence the other person, subconsciously. Also, audio is how the information is being passed.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by yarcob on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:43AM (#25505329)
Here's a trick how to get beautiful studio-like lighting for less than 50€:

- buy two large sheets of white styrofoam (1m x 0.5m or bigger)

- buy two cheap bright floodlights (the brighter the better)

- get some mounting materials (eg. wood and screws, or cardboard and duct tape)

- Place the two styrofoam plates right and left behind your laptop.

- point the floodlights at the styrofoam, carefully positioning them so they are not in the picture

Enjoy beautiful bright soft light. Optionally add a 3rd floodlight that shines on you from the side/from behind for highlights, and optionally another one to illuminate the background as needed.

Now you'll look amazing even with the cheapest, crappiest webcam.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:07AM (#25505844)
I am using two Ikea Skurup lamps (https://www.ikea.com/pl/pl/p/skurup-lampa-stolowa-kinkiet-go...) directly above and in front of my monitors, just outside of reach of webcam.

Soft lighting is a result of geometry. You can use very huge source far away from you or smaller but very close.

You also need to pay attention to how the light is scattered and that the direct light is not shining on your face. I have asked my wife to make half a dozen covers for them from a white material. They have a spot in the middle that blocks direct light from the bulb. I use a number of covers on each depending on how much I want to attenuate the lighting.

I also use a very small, cheap 5 watt high CRI, 6400K lightbulb in each. I use same kind of bulbs from same manufacturer for overhead light and for my desk lamp. I have separate desk lamps for 6400K light and 4000K light (which is what I like to use when I work).

The total cost is something on the order of 150 PLN or 40 USD plus a favor to my wife.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by yarcob on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:22AM (#25505965)
4x 5W LED isn't really a lot of light, especially if you are diffusing it. If your webcam can work with that, it's not that bad :)

Edit: I just read your comment again and realized that you are putting the light really close to your face. I guess that's a way to get away with low power lights.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by aembleton on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:57AM (#25506284)
My whole office only has a single 5W LED lamp! I thought that was enough.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by yarcob on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @02:07AM (#25515225)
I recently installed 5x20W LED lights in my windowless office kitchen for a ficus I got from a friend.

And it's so much nicer now! It's amazing what light can do to a room.

I think most homes should have an order of magnitude more light.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:39AM (#25506111)
I just measured, the light is about 45cm from my face. Additionally, the lamp reflects most of the light in my direction.

I am not a model and am not used to have such bright light source so close to my face. I had to attenuate it because then it is just too uncomfortable but also to match light level on my face with that of the background.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by cactus2093 on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @12:26AM (#25514665)
This is funny advice. Are we still talking about working from home here? Who wants to stare at huge styrofoam panels all day?

Much better alternative - if you have a window, set up your desk so you face towards it. It’s an automatic soft box and you get to look out the window.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by yarcob on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @01:59AM (#25515181)
If you just want decent video quality for a zoom meeting where everyone shows up in their pyjamas then I agree -- setting up lighting like I described is wasted effort.

But for example, if you are a teacher, or an instructor, or if you have a video meeting with important customers, you may want to put some more effort into presenting yourself. And the best bang for the buck is improving lighting.

Sitting in front of a window is a nice solution for an overcast day, but it doesn't work after sunset (currently around 4PM where I live) or on a sunny day with hard light. Unlike styrofoam boards, it's also hard to control the light because you can't move the window.

I'm not suggesting everyone should do what I said. I was just sharing a possible solution if you want to make good looking video.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by ptx on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @05:25AM (#25516233)
> Now you'll look amazing even with the cheapest, crappiest webcam.

I just bought the cheapest, crappiest webcam - a Trust Exis Webcam[1] - and I can assure you that nothing could ever look amazing viewed through that 480p blurry POS no matter what you do.

If you want cheap and crappy, I strongly recommend going for something slightly less cheap and crappy than this one.

[1] https://www.trust.com/en/product/17003-exis-webcam-black-sil...

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by MisterTea on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:02AM (#25505445)
Why not white bed sheets? I'm sure you could pick up a pack at a mega mart for a few quid. Easier to store, more environmentally friendly and less messy than styrofoam.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by germinalphrase on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:51AM (#25505738)
Styrofoam is probably easier to mount/angle appropriately for the use and may reflect more light - but the material doesn’t matter a great deal.

If you just want soft light, bounce it off anything you have on hand.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by rpastuszak on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:23AM (#25505976)
Works fine until it falls of a makeshift stand half way through the meeting, but I guess that’s an issue with yours truly being a bit lazy/not talented at DYI
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by bambax on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:03AM (#25505815)
Buying "pro" entry-level photographic lightning equipment is about the same cost and much simpler to set up.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:42AM (#25506135)
You don't need "pro" equipment for lighting. That's one area when you can get very creative. Most people can take lamps they already have and put some bit of white material on it, which is what I am doing for a very good effect.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by bambax on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:50AM (#25506218)
If you already have something then great; but if you're buying it's easier to just get a lightning set and bulbs with a specific color temp than do a lot of trial and errors with bed sheets and whatnot.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by yarcob on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:16AM (#25505920)
To be honest I have no idea what photo and video lights cost now.

When I looked into it a couple of years ago a minimum set of two strobes, mounts and a reflector would have cost more than 300€.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by bambax on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:51AM (#25506224)
I bought a set 7 years ago for $80; it's cheap not just in price: it's basic; but it works.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by marcosscriven on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:11AM (#25505870)
Can you recommend a good brand? I tried buying something from Amazon UK but contrary to reviews it turned out to be awful.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by bambax on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:59AM (#25506305)
Good brands are expensive but I have had some luck with Neewer, a cheap Chinese brand. Stands are usually flimsy but if you can you should buy wall mounting arms for either your walls or your ceiling; it also preserves floor space.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by rimliu on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:52AM (#25506753)
Godox is very good price-performance wise. I am not sure under what brand they sell their video lights in US. I know that their strobes are sold as Flashpoint.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by mushishi on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:17AM (#25505148)
+1 for improving audio quality. As a non-native English speaker, although I listen to daily podcasts without subs just fine, understanding an English speaking--possibly non-native, too!--person having a poor audio quality connection is a different story.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:57AM (#25505779)
People who do podcasts also take care in their pronunciation and that may be part of the effect.

But yes, in general, I have the same problem. It doesn't matter how well I see you if I can't understand what you are saying.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by jonpurdy on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:09AM (#25506909)
I wrote an article a few months back about this(1) and post when it's directly relevant. Main takeaways: audio is more important than video; get that correct first.

Easiest thing is using a cheap headset microphone. Advanced noice cancellation algorithms with a great microphone placed far away can't complete with the physics of having a mic close to your month.

Since publishing, I also found Webcam Settings, an app for Mac that lets you adjust specific settings on UVC webcams. I use it to correct the horrible auto white balance on my C920 (naturally looks way too blue).

I just wish Apple would make a new version of their iSight camera. Something with a similar physical shape with a cropped DSLR sensor and a fast lens. Basically, same quality as a mirrorless with a fixed f/2 lens but in a single small package.

1 - https://jonpurdy.com/2020/03/how-to-improve-your-zoomskype-t...

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by rconti on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:27PM (#25509449)
I have a logitech 920, bought about a month before the pandemic, and it's great.. except sometimes it completely forgets how to focus.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by wx196 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @04:24PM (#25511418)
Try to install Logitech G Hub, it should help
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by PragmaticPulp on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:54AM (#25506772)
This is the best advice. A high end mirror less camera will help a bit with its higher dynamic range, but simply optimizing your lighting will do wonders for any camera setup. All of the people showing beautiful mirrorless webcam shots have already optimized their lighting, so start there first.

Also, don’t be the person with the overly-complicated webcam setup who ends up delaying every other meeting while they fiddle with cables, tripods, camera batteries, overheating cameras, cameras going into standby and so on. Having crisp images doesn’t matter if your always late or frazzled because you had to tend to your perfect webcam setup.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by davio on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:34AM (#25506585)
Another cheap tip:

On your side monitor(s), set a couple of desktops with plain white, pink, and beige backgrounds. When you're on video, switch to the blank backgrounds to use as a soft fill light.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by murkt on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:04AM (#25505060)
It seems I needed to include a couple of shots - one is from my laptop webcam, and the other is from my phone. What "bad lighting" is changes very much based on the camera capabilities (lens, sensor, post-processing).
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by diarrhea on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:31AM (#25505233)
I disagree somewhat. Coming from a photography background, we should distinguish quantity and quality.

Quantity of light you can make up with higher gain (ISO) and higher available dynamic range also helps, as you mentioned.

Quality of light is determined entirely outside the camera, and better gear does not help much if at all. For photography, the quality matters countless times more than quantity, usually. I would argue the same is true for video/webcam.

This is what people don't get, and so hobbyists end up with $5k in gear, taking terrible photos. It's similar to when videographers don't put effort into their sound.

This makes it a question of how and what to light, not how much. The latter would be a matter of adjusting gain in-camera, in Post-Processing, or simply turning existing lighting up. But the former part is the important, and difficult, one.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by murkt on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:08AM (#25505478)
I agree that we should distinguish quantity and quality.

If we don't have enough light in a scene, we need to raise ISO for a given camera and that can easily make scene look bad. For other camera with bigger and less noisier sensor, brighter lens there can be enough light and it can look very good. I can imagine that there are cases, where increasing amount of light will only improve picture for a cheap camera.

If the light is plentiful and bad, cheap camera can produce abysmal results with parts of the image completely washed white in one part, and very dark in other parts. Good sensor with high dynamic range will produce much better results. Of course, improving the light will improve both results.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by goldcd on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:32AM (#25505625)
I'd agree. I recently picked up a Logitech Brio (employer was paying) and quite happy with it. Main advantage to me is that it can produce a decent picture without me having to faff around with lighting. Of course if I did sort out lighting, it would be better - but (to me) I'd prefer to just swap out the camera than assemble more clutter around me.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:14AM (#25505891)
Obviously if you directly compare good camera vs bad camera the good camera is going to win.

But if you compare good camera in bad lighting and bad camera with good lighting the bad camera will almost always win unless it is really, really shitty.

It is also usually much cheaper to improve lighting. If your face is a shadow while the rest of the room is brightly lit there is only so much that the camera can do, regardless of how much you invest in it.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by llampx on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:28AM (#25505207)
There's even a severe difference in different models by the same manufacturer. Apple for example, puts much better webcams in their iPhones and iPads than in their Macbooks.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by masklinn on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:27AM (#25505202)
Yes and no.

A better camera will be able to better compensate for bad lighting, but that doesn’t make the lighting good, and good lighting will improve the results of both. That’s why pro mage capturers (photogs and camera crews) spend a lot of time on getting the lighting as good as possible.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:23AM (#25505973)
To be sure I don't tell it is worthless to buy a better camera. I just say you may want to improve your lighting first.

Most webcams including the ones in laptop can provide decent quality image if there is ample amount of good light on the subject.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by cookieswumchorr on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:20AM (#25505161)
exactly, audio is the most important. Nobody needs to see your unshaven sleepy quarantine face in 4K. But if they can't hear you, or there is a lot of noise, the meeting is ruined
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:54AM (#25505759)
Actually, nobody will ever see your face in 4k because none of the platforms that are used for this will ever transmit video at that resolution. Most cap at 1080p with a very heavy compression.

Also understand that real time compression is different from offline compression. To compress well it requires a huge amount of CPU. Real time compression results in higher bandwidth for the same image quality but more typically less quality for the same bandwidth.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by vonseel on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:39PM (#25524335)
Never say never, I'm sure it won't be long before 4k's as commonplace as 1080p (with heavy compression).
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by jokethrowaway on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:14AM (#25505132)
Those are great tips. I'll add a free one: just put your desk in front of a window and use that natural light
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:49AM (#25505728)
I kinda agree and disagree at the same time.

It takes a lot of work to beat natural light coming from your window. If you have restricted budget and can choose the time when you record, this is a very good option that I always recommend to people I talk to.

On the other hand, when you do remote work you don't choose the time. Also, you will probably have other considerations for your desk placement. In the end it is much more important that you feel comfortable when working at your desk than to have good lighting in your webcam for your coworkers.

So, if you like to sit front to the window then sure, go on. But if that would make you uncomfortable then I don't think it is worth it.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by randycupertino on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:05PM (#25513946)
Also, coming from California and living on the Pacific, I have sort of a "too much light" problem. I've got sunrise on side of the house and sunset on the other and skylights in every room. I had an optimized setup in the living room but when I moved my office to the spare bedroom I am totally blasted out by the sunrise over the mountains and shadows come across my face as the sun moves.

I'm experimenting with moving my desk but the trial and error is a pita.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by mauvehaus on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:25AM (#25505990)
Hello from Vermont. How does that help for meetings after, say, 3:30 this time of the year?
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by lmilcin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:38AM (#25507256)
I am from Warsaw, Poland and believe it or not, Warsaw is about 7 degrees north from northernmost part of Vermont. Vermont spans 42 to 45 degrees while Warsaw is at 52 degrees.

Did you know that most of people in Canada live at the lattitude of Croatia or south of it?

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by mauvehaus on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:54PM (#25509753)
I lived in .be for 3 years. I believe it :-)

I think my favorite tidbit is that Rome and Boston are at the same latitude.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by marton78 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:00PM (#25512447)
Also, New York city and Naples, or Washington DC and Cairo.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by GordonS on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:49AM (#25506201)
I have my desk in front of a window, facing the window. I keep the blind about halfway down though, because the glare makes be squint at the monitor uncomfortably.

The other option would be to not face the window, but then you have bright daylight shining onto your monitors instead.

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by Macha on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:08AM (#25506898)
Also a bright window behind you plays badly with some webcams automatic lighting adjust (including the logitech ones recommended here). It should just let the window be overexposed/blown out but it prefers to adjust the brightness such that that is reasonably lit with the effect of making the foreground look like I'm in a dark room.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by rutthenut on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:53AM (#25505384)
Sod's law means that the window is often behind the desk, making video pics a silhouette, and the light that does come from the monitor can give some ghastly hues to your skin tone!
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by einpoklum on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:43AM (#25505330)
--== CRI ==--

As a service to the readers who aren't familiar with the term:

"The Color Rendering Index (CRI) measures the ability of a light source to bring out the true colors of an object. Without a high CRI light source, objects can appear faded, dull or inaccurate. "

Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by chapium on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:31PM (#25513448)
Everyone will be happy if you up your audio quality. Cracks, pops and other distortions are in headphones are not fun. Noone really minds visual quality unless you are presenting something on the camera.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by gsich on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:48AM (#25508234)
Not just subconsciously. If people have a shitty microphone I have more work to do. I need to listen more carefully.
Re:Why can’t you buy a good webcam? by xwdv on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:55AM (#25506263)
It doesn’t matter, you can have the best lighting and audio ever and still look like a garbled piece of stuttering pixel shit on an end user’s machine because their connection can’t handle the streaming. Unless you’re a cam girl don’t even bother with a sophisticated webcam setup.