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Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by neogodless on Sunday December 13, 2020 @08:42PM (#25412542)
This gave me chills.

If I understand this correctly, they'll be able to write their own checks because they will essentially...

1) Own self-driving and thus, most personal transportation

3) Own / replace a large segment of public utility / power companies

4) Own / replace a large segment of insurance

5) Own / replace transportation power network

Right now, it's silly to think of Tesla as some kind of mega-monopoly across industries. So we invest in them betting on them becoming that. Is that what we want?

My counter-argument is that one of the bigger markets for automobiles, the U.S., is designed around personal choice, personal autonomy, etc. Many people just want a working car to give them freedom, and will buy whatever popular, trusted brand is available. The rest want one of the smaller brands, something that seems different from the mainstream (even if it's really barely skin deep). That has kept quite a few big players in the automotive marketplace, and despite consolidation over time, there's still variety, which buyers want. This argument really only addresses them as a car maker, though... and not at all for their spread across industry lines.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by sandspar on Sunday December 13, 2020 @09:44PM (#25412968)
Something will stop them. They're not expanding into a vacuum: they're expanding into well-established markets full of billion dollar companies run by people just as driven and talented as they are - not to mention other forces like governments, supply and demand etc. Look at someone who eats 5,000 calories a day and gains 3 lbs a week. "My god, in 10 years they'll weigh 10,000 lbs!"
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by belltaco on Sunday December 13, 2020 @11:31PM (#25413580)
People said the same thing about Apple, and watched while it eventually decimated Nokia, Blackberry etc. Both Tesla and Apple have that premium brand reputation, and older brands are perceived as legacy. Doesn't mean that the car brands will fall to a similar fate, but they have an uphill battle to fight and need to pull a rabbit out of their hats.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by clouddrover on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:39AM (#25414471)
> they have an uphill battle to fight and need to pull a rabbit out of their hats

The Renault Zoe is the best selling electric car in Europe in 2020.

It's not like car manufacturers are standing still. They'll be pumping out electric cars year after year. When there's so much choice of EV, what's the reason to choose a Tesla? Europe is choosing the Zoe ahead of all other models right now.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by CptFribble on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:20AM (#25413850)
Not all major car makers will fall into the "legacy/old and busted" category - I think the ones with a long-time reputation for quality/dependability will be able to make a strong splash in the EV market once they've got a comparable product.

For example, if Honda or Toyota makes any of their mainline models with the simplified/basic interior but just with a well-made EV drivetrain compatible with the Tesla charger network, I'm probably buying instantly.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by Thlom on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:08AM (#25414623)
If you look at Norway where EV's account for close to 50% of new car sales you'll find that Tesla is not outselling anyone. Most sold EV this year was the Audi e-tron, followed by VW e-golf. Tesla M3 on 5th place. Tesla has the best range, but it's not that far ahead of the competition and it is generally more expensive than the competition.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by reitzensteinm on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:19AM (#25415367)
Tesla still has a 10% tariff there, which is fairly significant.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by Thlom on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @05:34AM (#25441018)
Source? AFAIK EV's are exempt from all tax. If there is a 10% tariff, then it must be the same for all other manufacturers as well. Anyway, my point was that in a mature EV market Tesla is not the only player.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by reitzensteinm on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @05:52AM (#25441135)
Yeah, I'm totally wrong. I had assumed the EU tariffs were shared by other nations in the EEA, but it's not true from what I can see. Importing an EU vehicle and US vehicle are the same (except for shipping costs).

Although EU nations, until GF Berlin, aren't quite apples to apples in that regard. But my understanding is that they did final assembly of the S and X in Europe to avoid the tariff, it's only the 3 that suffers.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by baskire on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:08AM (#25414074)
The issue will be battery supply chain. It’s the new ice engine in the supply chain
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by joshuamorton on Sunday December 13, 2020 @11:51PM (#25413688)
But being a "premium" or lifestyle brand is a lot less useful if you're competing in the insurance or utility markets.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by dexterdog on Sunday December 13, 2020 @11:58PM (#25413720)
Is Tesla considered a premium brand? Most of the cars they currently sell are pretty basic.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by benhurmarcel on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:24AM (#25415010)
They're pretty basic in terms of finish and equipment, but premium in terms of price.

The most sold cars in Europe are models that start around 15~20k€. The cheapest Tesla starts at 51k€; that's about 3 times the price. Even if you only look at electric cars, the best selling one is the Zoe which starts at about half the price of the cheapest Tesla.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by mhh__ on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:57AM (#25414026)
Yes, or at least they are a fashion statement to many. They aren't all that premium on paper
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by Ekaros on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:30AM (#25414178)
So they are the Prius of recent years?
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by dagw on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:14AM (#25415743)
In Europe Tesla's are much more expensive relative to their competition compared to the US.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by emptyfile on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:45AM (#25415143)
Premium refers to the price.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by josefx on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:01AM (#25413738)
As far as I understand Nokia was doing fine and was even ready to launch its own smartphone OS before it got subverted by a Microsoft manager that brought Windows Mobile and killed any chance it had to compete.

> Both Tesla and Apple have that premium brand reputation, and older brands are perceived as legacy.

In other words: overpriced crap vs. tried and tested.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by underwater on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:45AM (#25415940)
That's a bit of a generous assessment. They had an OS that was launched on one premium phone, well behind iOS, Android and Windows phone. A company like Nokia would struggle to turn their Symbian dumb phone market share into something that could win against Android.
Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by josefx on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:19PM (#25424158)
> They had an OS that was launched on one premium phone, well behind iOS, Android and Windows phone.

Nokia had Maemo since 2005 and tried to move to MeeGo in 2010. IOS was 2007, Android happened 2008 and Microsoft had almost no success with Windows Mobile, only launching Windows Phone near the end of 2010. Weird definition of well behind.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by underwater on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:32PM (#25426650)
You're right. I completely messed up the timings in my memory.

That said, Windows Phone was widely available in 2010. Whereas Nokia hadn't widely rolled out either Maemo or MeeGo.

Re:Tesla's market cap now accounts for roughly 1/3rd of the ... by coryrc on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:36AM (#25413925)
The board hired him specifically to try and sell the company to Microsoft.