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Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by ChuckMcM on Sunday December 13, 2020 @08:22PM (#25412340)
Funny reading this. A classmate of mine from USC was telling me that their production company was working with Apple to produce a show and it was not going well. Apparently among the folks they felt if Apple just filmed themselves flailing around trying to make something it would be a better show than the show they were making. They reminded me of Truffaut's "Day for Night" which we had seen in Cinema 190 (the cinema elective that engineers often take) and said it was kind of like that, only way funnier in a sad sort of way.

We have a running comparison of "LA people coming to the Bay Area to do tech because 'How hard can it be?'" and the reverse being true as well, "Bay Area people going to LA to produce television/movies because 'How hard can it be?'"

Reality is complicated, and smart people so often seem to miss that.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by Austin_Conlon on Sunday December 13, 2020 @10:37PM (#25413252)
Steve Jobs made a similar point a number of times based on his experience as CEO of Pixar:

> Hollywood's really different than Silicon Valley. And neither understands the other at all. People up here think being creative is some guys in their late 20s and early 30s sitting around old couches drinking beer thinking up jokes. It couldn't be further from the truth. The creative process is just as disciplined as the technical process; it requires just as much talent. And yet people in Hollywood think technology is only as deep as something you buy. There's no technical culture in Hollywood, they couldn't attract and retain good engineers to save their life, because they're second class citizens down there. Just like creative people are second class citizens in Silicon Valley.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,32207-6...

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by toyg on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:25AM (#25414713)
I don't often agree with a Jobs quote, but when I do...

My experience as a geek, on shores very far from Silicon Valley, is that engineers are second-class citizens almost everywhere, but particularly where "creatives" are on top.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by fakedang on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:33AM (#25414749)
Both actually kneel to marketers and sales tbh.

Look at any high paying industry/job, apart from FAANG tech or doctors - it's either marketing or sales at the end of the day. I'll go so far as to say that even most doctors in the US are in the sales business.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by xwdv on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:04AM (#25416998)
100%. Engineers and creatives rarely contribute directly to revenue the way marketing and sales does.
Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by fakedang on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:40PM (#25420482)
I kind of didn't want to put the statement out that way actually, although I didn't delve much deeper.

There are places where engineers' and creatives' opinions are valued and taken into account when making decisions, for instance certain quant funds or Hollywood studios. If you want to not be considered a second-class citizen, so to speak, work in a place where ideally your job isn't just coding or building content, but also convincing others of your own ideas (sales) and building consensus within the organization to back them (marketing).

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by thu2111 on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:38AM (#25418734)
I think this is a big part of why there is such a thing as a tech company. If you think about it, it's a weird concept to exist otherwise as basically every company uses technology. But "tech firms" as we know them are really "firms run by geeks". The people who can't get respect unless they create their own companies where they're on top from day one :(
Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by jseliger on Sunday December 13, 2020 @08:47PM (#25412587)
An evergreen germane to this point: http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-...

I do grant writing for nonprofits, public agencies, and some research-based businesses, and we get a fair number of calls from smart people who started with the best of intentions and then after a number of hours of struggle decided to seek aid.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by ethbr0 on Sunday December 13, 2020 @10:09PM (#25413100)
> smart people who started with the best of intentions

I had two roommates try to make a structurally stable stool / box out of lumber. 3 hours later I returned to find both of them pissed off & a "box" without a square corner in sight.

Days later, I offered in a conversation with them how odd it is that dimensional lumber doesn't measure the named dimensions.

They looked at me in shock and said "Maybe that's why nothing was lining up."

That's "X does Y, because how hard can it be?" in a nutshell. But the broader takeaway is to test & validate your own assumptions -- they had a measuring tape the entire time.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by ChuckMcM on Sunday December 13, 2020 @09:05PM (#25412719)
One of my favorite essays.
Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by arethuza on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:24AM (#25415404)
The BBC had a comedy based on its own bizarre inner workings - which was actually pretty funny:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W1A_(TV_series)

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by thinkingemote on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:58AM (#25416932)
It featured almost absurd routines of "yes, yes, no", "no, yes, no" etc

My foreign friends all pointed at the screen and shouted! Anyone know what that means? Searching for yes no doesn't turn up appropriate results.

Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by tobylane on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @04:58AM (#25428691)
Possibly this from Vicar of Dibley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yXYAK757Oc
Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by arethuza on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:08AM (#25417039)
Re:Apple TV Was Making a Show About Gawker. Then Tim Cook Fo... by P_I_Staker on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:37PM (#25420436)
This seems to be a recurring problem with silicon valley. Bay Area people are so arrogant, they think they can always do it better. Do to inefficiencies in the industry, it just looks from the outside like everyone is worthless, and they just need smart tech people to come and fix it. Then it turns out there were reasons for some of those things.