Because few people care about privacy but many care about UI, UX & features. Telegram is better there than any other chat app by a susbstantial margin.

This, unfortunately. Matrix (Element) is ever so sloowly getting there, it's slightly better than Signal now in some areas and worse in others, but neither (nor whatsapp or any other messenger) come close to Telegram.

Wire is also a good contender but they seem to have found that if you don't sell user data, there is little money to be made from personal accounts and are focusing more on business accounts. You can still register and use it as an individual, though (and I continue to do so). It has more features than Signal and isn't funded by Facebook so that's a plus, but the UX is slightly worse than Signal.

Makes you wonder what Telegram is going to make money with though. It's a huge liability for me, just so damn convenient... Need to find a better alternative.

I like the UX of whatsapp / messenger.

Also, telegram isn’t private either afaik.

In terms of contact info.. I kind of like knowing who I’m talking with

They're totally different apps! Signal's focus is 1-to-1 encrypted chats. Telegram's focus is broadcasting messages and group chats. One of them is a secure messenger, the other is a social media network on top of a messaging app.

At least Telegram can be used on a desktop without installing it on a spyphone (though without e2e encryption).

I would say "why not Matrix?".

Because Signal is virtually unknown here. Telegram has a small, but growing following. I'm aware that Telegram uses homegrown encryption which is not ideal.

Telegram doesn't use any encryption for groups. It uses encryption only in 1:1 chats when you specifically request it.

The transfer to the server is certainly encrypted. You are referring to end-to-end encryption, I assume.

Correct, I'm referring to e2e. My personal trust model is not to trust the server.

Right, I understand. It's still encrypted, though, just not in a way that you like.

In the same way that FB, Whatsapp, and pretty much every other app works. I doubt there are any chat apps that don't encrypt between the client and server.

To be fair, when Telegram launched WhatsApp was still unencrypted. It was a big part of Telegram's marketing at the time.

Exactly. Sadly they didn't hold their promises

Nobody should like just SSL.

IMHO, it is NOT encrypted, unless the service provider (also can't read your message). A promise from a Russian based company (the Facebook of Russia) doesn't put any assurances for me.

We can't just assign new definitions to encryption. It's encrypted in such a way that a person watching the wire can't see the contents of the message. If you don't want the message on the server, use a secret e2e chat. They are very up front and clear on this matter.

For the vast majority of my messages, I'm fine with them living on their servers. If I need to send credentials to my family, I can use an e2e channel. For me, it's a step up from hangouts and definitely better than whatsapp or facebook messenger.

I acknowledge that it is not the standard tech definition. From a user perspective, 'Encryption' ought to mean only me and the person/people whom I communicate with can read the message.

Telegram is not affiliated with VK, neither is Telegram based in Russia 🇷🇺

Hmmm? Telegram founder is a sharholder in VK from what heard from people from Russia and Ukraine.

The founder of Telegram, Pavel Durov, was also _the original creator_ of VK. Some say “he's the Mark Zuckerberg of Russia”, an unfair comparison if you'd ask me. While both Pavel and Mark have built successful social platforms, that's where the similarities ends.

Because he refused to comply with government demands to identify activists using VK, Durov was personally ousted from the company (and self-exiled from Russia altogether).

While refreshing my Durov trivia, I found he published a text a couple days ago, and this following passage just had a good vibe; “I focused on what I enjoyed most – creating social platforms that (hopefully) bring good to humanity. I spent most of my personal funds on Telegram for people to enjoy a free service that strives for perfection.”[1]

[1]: https://telegra.ph/Consume-Less-Create-More-Its-More-Fun-12-...

why Signal and not wire? (no sim card needed), No need to allow access to your address book to make group chat. Works in browser, ios, android, desktop app. Using signal protocol. And you can draw in it.

why wire and not lockdown? why lockdown and not matrix? why matrix and not IRC on a self-hosted server? why IRC and not HF packet radio why HF packet radio and not OTP notes on flashpaper delivered by carrier pigeon?

this is the current problem i have with chat. there are too many options.

I've been using Wire for a few years and the experience is solid. No need for phone numbers anymore, just @handle, and it does multi-device encryption and backup. Its search is very fast, even for large number of messages. Good support for attachments and superb audio and video.

On the flip side, it's not very customizable and doesn't have a lot of the more "modern" UX goodies like emoji reactions or threads. But it's overall very good and I see no reason to change.

Coz , if a lot of people use Signal, govts would surely want to peek into the chats

Applies to every messenger