The transfer to the server is certainly encrypted. You are referring to end-to-end encryption, I assume.

Correct, I'm referring to e2e. My personal trust model is not to trust the server.

Right, I understand. It's still encrypted, though, just not in a way that you like.

In the same way that FB, Whatsapp, and pretty much every other app works. I doubt there are any chat apps that don't encrypt between the client and server.

To be fair, when Telegram launched WhatsApp was still unencrypted. It was a big part of Telegram's marketing at the time.

Exactly. Sadly they didn't hold their promises

Nobody should like just SSL.

IMHO, it is NOT encrypted, unless the service provider (also can't read your message). A promise from a Russian based company (the Facebook of Russia) doesn't put any assurances for me.

We can't just assign new definitions to encryption. It's encrypted in such a way that a person watching the wire can't see the contents of the message. If you don't want the message on the server, use a secret e2e chat. They are very up front and clear on this matter.

For the vast majority of my messages, I'm fine with them living on their servers. If I need to send credentials to my family, I can use an e2e channel. For me, it's a step up from hangouts and definitely better than whatsapp or facebook messenger.

I acknowledge that it is not the standard tech definition. From a user perspective, 'Encryption' ought to mean only me and the person/people whom I communicate with can read the message.

Telegram is not affiliated with VK, neither is Telegram based in Russia 🇷🇺

Hmmm? Telegram founder is a sharholder in VK from what heard from people from Russia and Ukraine.

The founder of Telegram, Pavel Durov, was also _the original creator_ of VK. Some say “he's the Mark Zuckerberg of Russia”, an unfair comparison if you'd ask me. While both Pavel and Mark have built successful social platforms, that's where the similarities ends.

Because he refused to comply with government demands to identify activists using VK, Durov was personally ousted from the company (and self-exiled from Russia altogether).

While refreshing my Durov trivia, I found he published a text a couple days ago, and this following passage just had a good vibe; “I focused on what I enjoyed most – creating social platforms that (hopefully) bring good to humanity. I spent most of my personal funds on Telegram for people to enjoy a free service that strives for perfection.”[1]

[1]: https://telegra.ph/Consume-Less-Create-More-Its-More-Fun-12-...