News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by artificialLimbs on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:32PM (#25280451)
I'll never question whether I should give up my freedom for a train.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by whatshisface on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:39PM (#25280556)
Fortunately, there are many non-authoritarian countries with working train systems. It is funny how Americans choose the worst countries to look up to for relatively mild accomplishments. Maybe because it would hurt our pride to talk about the successes of other countries without the safety blanket of thinking that we still wouldn't want to live there. Maybe out of a perverse sense of intellectual stimulation ("bad yet good, mmm how sophisticated."). It might also be that everyone imagines themselves as the powerful, decisive officials, without realizing that only a few people can occupy those spots; statistically, they should expect to be the peons. But whatever the reason it is funny whenever it happens.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by justinzollars on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:50PM (#25280695)
China built 16,000 miles of High Speed Rail in 10 years. California in the same period of time completed about 35 miles of high speed rail. I want to know how they could do this.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by dragonwriter on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @04:02PM (#25281585)
China has 20 times the land area and 35 times the population of California, and you're comparing apples to oranges comparing a nation-state entity with a sub-nation-state entity that was stymied by conflict with the superior government. And you are comparing actual construction time in China with something else in California (but what, I'm not sure, because 10 years is too short if you are looking at it from public project initial very-partial financing approval with Prop 1A, and too long of you are looking at start of construction in 2015.)
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by whatshisface on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:52PM (#25280721)
Maybe you could look at other countries with high per-capita rail building projects. Japan has an okay system. The UK is better in that way than the US. Europe is filled with rail. The US is really the only rich country I can think of that doesn't have a workable passenger rail system.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by nmfisher on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:32AM (#25289157)
Australia certainly doesn't.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by justinzollars on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:06PM (#25280889)
The original article, is on China Governance. I pointed out how well they do infrastructure, related to the article.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by bpt3 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:34PM (#25281202)
> I pointed out how well they do infrastructure, related to the article.

And then you projected that all of western civilization is in decline because the US hasn't prioritized high speed rail. Among other things, this completely ignores the countries within the "West" that have high speed rail as well.

That's what people are taking issue with, not that you pointed out that China has high speed rail.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by justinzollars on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:28PM (#25283729)
It is certainly in relative decline. This is a matter of fact not opinion.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by whatshisface on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:36PM (#25283780)
"Relative decline" is like saying, "my parents are half as tall as they were when I was eight."
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by wait_a_minute on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @10:56PM (#25285191)
How exactly are you measuring this decline?
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by bpt3 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @11:56PM (#25285543)
Please provide these facts.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by justinzollars on Friday December 04, 2020 @02:12PM (#25306392)
You could read a number of books on this subject. The China Dream, On China, or Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides’ Trap? The Economist is a good magazine, with almost weekly updates on this topic.

We've been surpassed in PPP, Global Trade, Industrial Output etc. China's steel production is 1 billion tons a year, the US 80 million tons. They poured as much concrete in the last 10 years as we poured in the 20th century. In just a few years we will be surpassed by GDP and witin 25 years China's GDP will be double the United States.

China's rise is not disputed.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by bpt3 on Saturday December 05, 2020 @12:31AM (#25312056)
Okay, that's not decline, and not all of those figures are facts. Also, you seem obsessed with quantity of infrastructure built, which isn't really a great metric for measuring what you're claiming is happening.

The other poster with the analogy about a child's height is 100% accurate.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by Zafira on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @10:31PM (#25285026)
Once upon a time, the American consensus was also generally comfortable with destroying neighborhoods wholesale to build freeways and other infrastructure in the name of progress. Now it takes forever or never for fear of triggering a voter uprising. But, these rules came from a place: there are vast swaths of major cities that have been destroyed. Some are not a meaningful loss and others came at the cost of people who lacked the funding and support to effectively pushback. Why Dodger Stadium is in Chavez Ravine is a sad story and is part of the reason why there's a literal school buried under the parking lot.

China doesn't care. You do what you're told. If you complain too much, you disappear; if the project has an atrocious safety record, they are not reported and no such records exist (or blame a low-level official); if an entire neighborhood was destroyed without compensation, shut up and deal with it. You can get what you want, just how many bodies are you willing to bury to get it?

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by sudosysgen on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @11:45PM (#25285491)
You really don't need to destroy neighborhoods to build trains.

You need to destroy neighborhoods to built road infrastructure, though. This is because "I/O operations" on high-speed roads with massive bandwidth à-la-USA requires ungodly amounts of space.

Here is the infrastructure needed for high-speed rail : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/FXD1-J00..., plus one train station per city. The switches can be built outside.

Here is the infrastructure needed for traditional highways: https://i0.wp.com/usa.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sit...

If the infrastructure that was built was not horribly inefficient due to an almost ideological opposition to mass transit, there wouldn't have been neighbourhoods destroyed wholesale, and the precedent leading to the gargantuan opposition we see right now would simply not be present.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by heavyset_go on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:13PM (#25280966)
And the USSR went from a poor, agrarian society to the first spacefaring nation on Earth in less than 4 decades.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by bpt3 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:02PM (#25280844)
They made it a priority, unlike the US. Whether it should be a priority of the US is separate from whether it's possible to accomplish or not.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by credit_guy on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:58PM (#25280801)
Freedom is not a binary variable. The First Amendment protects the freedom of speech, but how many people feel comfortable to freely speak their mind at one of the corporate training courses on diversity and inclusion for example? People everywhere are smart and learn that if if you know what's good for you, there are some things you should say and some things you shouldn't. The set of things you should or shouldn't say may be different in China than in the US, but the curtailment of freedom is present in both places and different only in a matter of degree.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by gruez on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:07PM (#25283002)
>The First Amendment protects the freedom of speech, but how many people feel comfortable to freely speak their mind at one of the corporate training courses on diversity and inclusion for example?

You clearly misunderstand what the First Amendment is about. It's a restraint on government, not a restraint on everyone else.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by credit_guy on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:11PM (#25284444)
I know, but what difference does it make?

Around 1865 we reached the conclusion that it is the duty of the Government to protect some people from having their freedom taken away by some other people. Since then the Constitution started imposing restraints not only on the ability of the Government to curtail your freedom, but also the ability of your fellow citizens to do so. And this is a good thing.

But lately we started regressing. I'm talking about the cancel culture.

Do you think that if one day a person were to be physically tarred and feathered by a crowd of puritans because of some perceived transgression, that is ok? But then if the tarring and feathering is in the digital world, and much more permanent (nothing is forgotten on the internet), is that ok?

The end result is that people learn there are some things you can say, some things you can't, and some things you must say.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by Rapzid on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:47PM (#25280661)
Right.

I guess Hong Kong's problem is they just haven't experienced China's rail system yet. /s

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by aeternum on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:59PM (#25280811)
Freedom goes both ways. The decision is really about the 'freedom' of millions of commuters vs. the 'freedom' of home/landowners.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by Denvercoder9 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:44PM (#25280617)
At the same time it's worth it to consider why they manage to get it done quickly and efficiently, and we struggle to get it done at all. I don't believe a free society would (or should) fundamentally be completely incapable of building a high-speed train.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by vmception on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:43PM (#25280598)
I censor myself on wechat just so I can take high speed trains lol

Its actually not that hard and Chinese content platforms are a breath of fresh air

Me thinks you would be surprised at what works

The state there takes a paternal approach, like a literal parent, or teacher or school principle (or unit commander, or HR department). It isn’t that unrelatable, we all grew up in similar restrictions. When everyone agrees that is what the role of the state is, nobody is trying to be a freedom fighter to alter that

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by gruez on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:15PM (#25283077)
>Its actually not that hard and Chinese content platforms are a breath of fresh air

That's sort of like saying Chinese politics is a breath of fresh air because you don't have to worry about picking a side and hearing the various parties arguing with each other.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by vmception on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @11:40PM (#25285457)
shrug

they have a heavily neutered internet and it is a pleasant experience

its a walled garden, at the country level, do you want a sticker because of your awareness of Beijing?

there is simply a life beyond imagining it as oppressive all the time, when the reality is that you just hang out in communities in your niche and you dont have to worry about it being randomly politicized. A large part of the mindshare in the west is trying to figure out how to do that, checking out the other internet is probably good for your mental health

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by platinumrad on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:37PM (#25280535)
Have you ever considered what freedoms we already lack due to our barbaric car-centric society?
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by reaperducer on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:58PM (#25280794)
our barbaric car-centric society?

If you consider car-centric society barbaric, you've never experience barbarism, or understand what the word even means. Hyperbole is not helpful.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by platinumrad on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:09PM (#25280916)
A society where in many regions every adult must wield a 3000 pound death machine to simply participate is indeed barbaric. I'm not sure what other term I should be using to describe a society that almost openly celebrates the way it is destroying the planet.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by medium_burrito on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:47PM (#25283412)
We call this society "Thunderdome"
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by reaperducer on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @04:55PM (#25282190)
If the only words in your toolbox are "barbaric," "death machine," and "destroying," don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously and stop engaging with you.

Being factual and a little more subtle goes a long way.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by bpt3 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:23PM (#25281066)
I've been very surprised about the vitrol on HN towards cars, which I also experienced recently when I posted some very basic facts about deaths caused by cars vs other means and have seen in some other threads.

I live in an urban area and enjoy not having to drive long distances (or at all) to run errands, but I don't see them as an extenstential threat to humanity as many posters here apparently do.

I still haven't figured it out.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by ianleeclark on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:41PM (#25280583)
I'd hazard to guess there's no way to, "by your logic," someone who's already crossed the threshold of equating a working train system to slavery.
Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by majormajor on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:41PM (#25280582)
> Have you ever considered what freedoms we already lack due to our barbaric car-centric society?

Barbaric is a fun word, but one that would be easy to twist the other way. In one system you get to be crammed into a little train car with dozens of other people, in the other system you have some privacy and personal space and a seat...

Again, pros and cons all over the place... the US doesn't have good trains because it built other systems instead due to the point in time in which many of its cities developed, and they are "good enough" that most people would see little benefit from ripping it all up to replace it with trains.

It's worth noting too that "they make the trains run on time" is literally a cliche about certain types of government at this point, not some unique accomplishment.

Re:How the CCP Does Job Promotions by tshaddox on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:00PM (#25282933)
> In one system you get to be crammed into a little train car with dozens of other people, in the other system you have some privacy and personal space and a seat...

If you have enough money for both options, then it's not surprising that the option which costs at least an order of magnitude more provides a slightly more comfortable seat.