It's funny - i avoid Wyze because it seems such a good deal. Something seems off about that, the price is simply too good - and i loathe being the product these days.

I hate being the product as well, but it's pretty much inescapable now. Paying for a service does not opt you out of being marketed to other income streams as a product (ie, combined stats, being part of a test group, etc).

The best we can hope for by paying for a product is getting additional features and not being inconvenienced (ie, avoiding ads).

I almost bought an $80 pdf application (pdf expert) only to find out it phones home with my device details...

And now that company won't be getting my $80. I'll use the open source alternatives, even if they aren't as nice to use.

Use open source, write your own open source or just do without. You can't just accept the inevitable and bow into it - inevitability doesn't change morality.

Device details? As in, operating system and version, cpu, etc. That seems super reasonable for support purposes...

> 2.1.2 Regarding the App: certain data is transmitted by your mobile device: namely your IP address, the periods of time in which you use the App and the type of device you use (e.g. IPhone, IPad), as well as events within the application recorded with Amplitude analytics in order to give us the possibility to continuously improve the App.

From their privacy policy. Oddly enough, no, they don't need to broadcast my ip and when I use the app. Not required at all for me to read PDFs. They may want that data - and if so they should ask me instead of just taking it.

I agree, but in the case of audio or video recording devices i am especially paranoid. If someone sells how often i use a toaster i'm annoyed - if someone sells video or audio of me i'm livid.

don't give up.

Been a customer for a few years. They're upfront with everything. From what I know I'm not the product (so far). Everything I ever purchased was an excellent value and met 99% of my expectations. My only gripe is there is no desktop software to manage all the devices. You should give them a try, the cameras are awesome.

Honest question: what do you base that off of? I can’t think of a way to prove the negative, that I’m not the product, that overcomes the assumption that the hardware prices are so low that they will have great incentive to monetize in other ways.

I got the feeling that the price was too good to not be something else as well.

I might be mistaken, but it appears to me that they might have ways of monetizing user data.

From the privacy statement:

> We allow others to provide analytics services and serve advertisements for us across the web and in mobile applications. These entities may use cookies, web beacons, device identifiers and other technologies to collect information about your use of the Services and other websites and applications, including your IP address, web browser, mobile network information, pages viewed, time spent on pages or in apps, links clicked, and conversion information. This information may be used by Wyze and others to, among other things, analyze and track data, determine the popularity of certain content, deliver advertising and content targeted to your interests on our Services and other websites and online services, and better understand your online activity.

I agree. It has to be like how smart TVs are so amazingly cheap. They are going to monetize your data.

Well I base it off the fact that how could the possibly monetize a video of some guy walking his dog or a vehicle going by. I can opt out of their marketing material and everything can be saved locally to an SD Card.

In my opinion the hardware prices are cheaper because it's sourced out of China and the product is at the lower end but worth every penny. I use to source widgets out of China that were amazing quality. I would have them delivered to my factory in Canada. The price of the finished product delivered to my factory door step was cheaper than the cost of raw materials in Canada. There were no duties involved since the HS Code of the item was duty free and China had Most Favored Nation Status.

So that's probably how they do it. The Camera costs them a few of $$ delivered and they sell it for $20 +. The only draw back is that the Chinese copied the design and would be selling in their internal market or markets where Wyze wasn't in yet.

Because it’s essentially Amazon, ex Amazon engineers and they integrate with Alexa by default which likely means a nice side channel income.

How does Alexa integration open up revenue? Does Amazon pay companies to integrate?

This may have changed, but in the past, I believe they were essentially just rebranded Xiaomi cameras (possibly from other suppliers) with different firmware. I originally thought the Chinese products were clones of Wyze, but it appears Wyze is actually just using existing low-cost hardware from overseas. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though.

FYI - for some camera models (Xiaomi or Wyze), you can flash them with this custom firmware[1], allowing for a lot more customization.

[1] https://github.com/EliasKotlyar/Xiaomi-Dafang-Hacks

Are they selling a bunch of activity data to people or something? $20 for a smart watch has me wanting to try this. I wonder if the catch is that they only work for about a year?

You might just be seeing the markup of other products.

Their products are cheap enough that if it misses a motion event you'll say "oh well, it's doing well for a $20 camera."

Has anyone done a thorough security analysis of any of their devices? Do they phone home or otherwise open some sort of back door? I agree that it does seem too good to be true

"Wyze Labs, Inc ... are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates."

I would like to believe there is good in the world, but other than Linux nothing has held it up.

While Wyze has undoubtedly a relationship with Amazon that goes beyond them being just ex engineers the trade mark disclaimer isn’t for Wyze Labs Inc itself which is privately owned but for Alexa and the rest of the Amazon products they integrate with.

> but other than Linux nothing has held it up.

You could probably include the EFF, GNU Project, BSD's, and a couple others as well.

Inspect Element shows that's just a formatting goof in the footer. Wyze is not part of Amazon (...yet...).

© 2020 Wyze Labs, Inc

Amazon, Alexa, Echo Spot and all related logos are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

Google, Inc., Google, Google Home, Google Home Mini, G logo, The Google Assistant built-in, and related marks and logos are trademarks of Google, Inc. All rights reserved.

You've misread.

> © 2020 Wyze Labs, Inc Amazon, Alexa, Echo Spot and all related logos are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

The page is copyright Wyze Labs. Separately, those other terms are trademarks of Amazon.

I blame their website for the mixup. they forgot a newline.

Selling at a loss to build up their ecosystem I imagine, same as Amazon with all their devices.

They could be hoping to be acquired by Amazon as well.

This. The founders are all exAmazon and I think this is a likely exit strategy.

I was only aware of their Wyze Cam (which I have a couple of) and I had no idea till I saw this post that they have other devices now, such as Plug, Bulb, Scale etc.

Quality can sometimes be a bit iffy (my motion sensor and door open sensors failed) and now the useful camera event alerts are behind a (small) monthly fee.

There are a lot of cameras at that price range. I got one from a competitor (some router manufacturer, forgot which one).

You were able to find sensors? When I've looked they've always been sold out for months.

They are coming out with new sensors.