News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by dylan604 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @02:57PM (#25050968)
But it's right there in the name: 13" MacBook Pro
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by stevenisageek on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:15PM (#25051254)
The 13" 'pro' has never really been a 'real' pro. They were/are always spec'd with less cores than the 15"/16" and never had dedicated graphics.
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by bydo on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:40PM (#25053049)
There are two lines of 13" MacBook Pro, the two-port and four-port versions. The two-port always lagged behind the four-port, with older CPUs, less RAM, etc. The four-port (which has not yet been replaced) is configurable to 32GB of RAM.
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by threeseed on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:38PM (#25051579)
Entry level 13" MacBook Pro is for prosumers.

Think web developers, photographers, bloggers etc.

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by pvg on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:49PM (#25051706)
Web developers and photographers are the opposite of 'prosumers', kind of by definition. Plus, think of the size of a full res photo coming out of a high-end phone, never mind a DSLR.
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by fxtentacle on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @04:39AM (#25056946)
Most of the professional photographers that I work with have PC workstations with 64gb to 256gb of RAM. Retouching a 48MP HDR file in Photoshop needs roughly 800MB of RAM per layer and per undo step.
Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @06:31AM (#25057476)
Old undo steps could be dumped to SSD pretty easily.

And while I understand that many people are stuck on photoshop, I bet it would be easy to beat 800MB by a whole lot. But so I can grasp the situation better, how many non-adjustment layers do those professional photographer use? And of those layers, how many have pixel data that covers more than 10% of the image?

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by fxtentacle on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @07:14AM (#25057704)
From what I've seen, quite a lot of layers are effectively copies of the original image with global processing applied, e.g. different color temperature, blur, bloom, flare, hdr tone mapping, high-pass filter, local contrast equalization. And then those layers are being blended together using opacity masks.

For a model photo shoot retouch, you'd usually have copy layers with fine skin details (to be overlaid on top) and below that you have layers with more rough skin texture which you blur.

Also, quite a lot of them have rim lighting pointed on by using a copy of the image with remapped colors.

Then there's fake bokeh, local glow for warmth, liquify, etc.

So I would assume that the final file has 10 layers, all of which are roughly 8000x6000px, stored in RGB as float (cause you need negative values) and blended together with alpha masks. And I'd estimate that the average layer affects 80%+ of all pixels. So you effectively need to keep all of that in memory, because once you modify one of the lower layers (e.g. blur a wrinkle out of the skin) you'll need all the higher layers for compositing the final visible pixel value.

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @11:10AM (#25059499)
Huh, so a lot of data that could be stored in a compact way but probably won't be for various reasons.

Still, an 8k by 6k layer with 16 bit floats (which are plenty), stored in full, is less than 400MB. You can fit at least eleven into 4GB of memory.

I'll easily believe that those huge amounts of RAM make things go more smoothly, but it's probably more of a "photoshop doesn't try very hard to optimize memory use" problem than something inherent to photo editing.

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by dylan604 on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @11:50AM (#25059998)
So why are you blaming the end user for needing more hardware specs than you'd prefer because some 3rd party software vendor they are beholden to makes inefficient software?

Also, your "could be stored in a compact way" is meaningless. Unless your name is Richard and you've designed middle out compression, we are where we are as end users. I'd be happy if someone with your genius insights into editing of photo/video data would go to work for Adobe and revolutionize the way computers handle all of that data. Clearly, they have been at this too long and cannot learn a new trick. Better yet, form your own startup and compete directly with the behemoth that Adobe is and unburden all of us that are suffering life with monthly rental software with underspec'd hardware. Please, we're begging.

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @03:28PM (#25062611)
Where did I blame the end user?

> Also, your "could be stored in a compact way" is meaningless. [...]

That's getting way too personal. What the heck?

I'm not suggesting anything complex, either. If someone copies a layer 5 times and applies a low-cpu-cost filter to each copy, you don't have to store the result, just the original data and the filter parameters. You might be able to get something like this already, but it doesn't happen automatically. There are valid tradeoffs in simplicity vs. speed vs. memory.

"Could be done differently" is not me insulting everyone that doesn't do it that way!

Re:Apple unveils M1, its first system-on-a-chip for portable... by dylan604 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:01PM (#25053257)
You must not rate photographers very highly if you are mentioning them in the same sentence as "bloggers, etc".