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Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by defen on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @12:13AM (#25042990)
One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the reality of actual combat. If the horsemen want to raid your supply lines or burn down your countryside or disrupt your trade networks, how do you stop them? They can concentrate forces much more quickly than a foot army can form or react. In the 11th century a few hundred Norman knights conquered Sicily and southern Italy. Even through the 1860s a few thousand Comanche controlled a large portion of the American southwest because there was no good way to fight them.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by raducu on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:08AM (#25043730)
Knights and aristocracy held their power through force, so there is no question that knights could overwhelmingly defeat peasants.

However, what is often missed in the depictions of peasants is that they were much stronger than modern folk, they did kill animals quite often, they did fight other peasants quite often.

Free peasants were a different story from bound peasants, mountain peasants a different story from low lands.

I know because my grandparents were peasants from a mountainous region, you did not want to mess with those peasants.

I could go all they about the acts of aggression, strength and bravery I've witnessed (same on the contrary).

Such a peasant would not fight in pitch battle, but would simply burn their crops, take their cattle and sheep up the mountain and return in autumn when armies would go back home. They would setup ambushes, mostly targeting guides, but they were quite opportunistic.

It was remarkable reading Xenophon's account of fighting mountain people in ancient times -- while I did feel his disgust for them, the sense was that they could be quite dangerous when fighting on their home turf.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by motoboi on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:43AM (#25044869)
Yes, they did. Lot of physical demanding tasks, but no, they were in a almost constant state of sub nutrition to be stronger that a modern working class person.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by creativityEng on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:51AM (#25044928)
It should be noted that practicing hard movements will train the PNS to fire all at the same time.

No extra muscle necessary.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by m_mueller on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:17AM (#25043256)
Have a look at what's called the 'infantry revolution' started by the Swiss and later the German Landsknechts. Starting in the 1300s, the role of knights in battles got lessened by this, until they were basically only a flanking tool in most armies. It was basically a reinvention of the Greek phalanx.

Edit: This YouTube series shows it best I think: https://youtu.be/6KbroTkaey0

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by defen on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:43AM (#25043360)
I'm not talking about pitched battles though; more the logistics of even engaging horsemen in battle if you don't have your own horses.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by m_mueller on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:54AM (#25044572)
There are enough examples of victories of pure infantry armies against knights from that time period. I think your points apply more in the period between 1000 and 1300.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by koonsolo on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:30AM (#25044134)
That's why the peasants in the battle of the golden spurs used a river to make a swamp. Which took the advantage away from the cavalry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:20AM (#25044376)
Famously redone in 1939 or 1940 in the Netherlands to try and slow down the German invasion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Netherlands#Dutc...) ; actually TIL the system was built in the 17th century.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:48AM (#25043938)
I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by inglor_cz on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:33AM (#25044148)
In the right circumstances, yes, it could be a liability.

Here in Late Medieval Czechia we had a militant reformation movement called the Hussites. Of course, the rest of Catholic Europe sent in several crusades to crush the heretics, without much success.

One of the many reasons why the crusaders failed were so-called Wagenburgs [0]. Basically, the Hussite army would be underway with very heavy wagons and, if the scouts brought back information about an approaching enemy, would build a provisional fort out of them fairly quickly. Such a fort could not be swept away by a cavalry attack and if the defenders had enough guns (and by that time early firearms were already used in Europe), the knights tightly packed around the wagenburg would present a perfect target.

Plus, there were kids under the wagons with very sharp scythes, hacking at the unprotected horses' legs just in front of them, just as you mention.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort#Czechs_and_Hussites

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by tenpies on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @09:22AM (#25046216)
That is so cool to learn about. My first exposure to war wagons was in AoE 3 [1] and I always wondered how a fortified wagon drawn by horse was somehow a counter to cavalry when you would theoretically just kill the horse and render the wagon useless (a mobility kill). Makes much more sense when you consider that a bunch of them are essentially a portable fort.

---

[1] https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/War_Wagon_(Age_of_Empir...

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by Sander_Marechal on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:06AM (#25044021)
Being the target of a cavalry charge is absolutely terrifying even for hardened soldiers. There is very little chance of fighting effectively when everyone around you is fleeing or being pressed together. And you're being charged by a 2-ton armored war machine. Or dozens of them. I'm a reenactor. It's even terrifying when you know it's fake and you know you're safe.

Knights did loose horses though. They all took multiple war horses with them to battle (a "lance" usually consisted of one knight, multiple warhorses and a regular horse for travel/supplies and several servants). When they lost their horse, they fought their way back to their own side and got on the next horse.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:20AM (#25044076)
> When they lost their horse, they fought their way back to their own side and got on the next horse.

Oh interesting, so it was basically expected? Not a force majeure? I always thought losing a horse back then was a really big event for the knight, borderline tragic - a big financial loss, a highly increased likelihood of dying (getting stuck under the horse etc etc)

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by Sander_Marechal on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:42AM (#25044196)
Oh it is, a warhorse is very expensive. But they were still expected to take multiple warhorses into a battle in case one of them got killed. And fighting your way back is easier said than done.

The most common reason for loosing a warhorse is probably not that it was killed. It was that it was wounded by archers. In that case you can ride back, swap horses and join the cavalry again. And tend to the wounded horse after the battle.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @08:27PM (#25065311)
after reading about some feats of strength exhibited by knights, I assume carrying your precious war horse back to safety wasn't completely out of the picture.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by mdiesel on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:55AM (#25044573)
"My kingdom for a horse" being the famous cry of Richard III, though he carried on fighting on foot in the play before being killed by Richmond. When they found his body a few years ago he'd died of head wounds implying that he'd ended the battle on foot.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by lonesword on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:42AM (#25044200)
> I'm a reenactor

Oh please do tell us more. How and where do you do the re-enactments? I'd love to visit (once the pandemic is over)

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by gadders on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:07AM (#25045039)
You need to remember that the horses were warhorses, and were taught to "fight" as well - they would bite, rear up and hit with their hooves etc.

So they would be vulnerable, but the horse itself has a vote.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by watwut on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:03AM (#25044008)
You can leave the horse behind and continue by walk if you think it gives you advantage. The speed and maneuverability here is not just about during combat, but mostly about ability to do long term plan and maneuver.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by varjag on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:00AM (#25043991)
Horse is a large animal IRL, killing it or even seriously injuring with a blade is not trivial. And when there's a knight with a lance or a longsword on top, you might not even get one shot at it.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by Balgair on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @10:31AM (#25047043)
A good counter example is the Battle of Poitiers in 1356. There, the English archers not only defeated the French nobility in melee' but captured a good many of them, a total catastrophe for France. Though this battle may be the exception that proves the rule, more than anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poitiers

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by justin66 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @10:51AM (#25047282)
The English similarly defeated France at the prior Battle of Crécy, as well.

They are not great counterexamples in the "Knight vs Peasant" argument because you're talking about an entire English army led by an English prince. In the slightly larger-scope argument of knights vs footmen in combat, sure, it's a very good example.