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Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by Pfhreak on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:36AM (#24930884)
Related, I'm curious how long y'all feel it will take for you to be comfortable with what was historically normal.

For example, riding a crowded bus or train, going to a concert, or even going shopping at a big box store seem totally bizarre to me right now. Even after the numbers come down I expect it will be some time before my brain isn't reflexively telling me to wear a mask and avoid crowds.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sharken on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:49AM (#24931058)
Not sure what kind of response you expect here, but I’m ready to go back to the old ways today.

Incidently, the way New York and Sweden have tackled the virus have been the most consistent. There was a large first wave, but no second wave (measured in deaths).

On the other end of the spectrum there are countries such as Poland with no initial first wave back in March. But it seems you can only go for so long before the virus turns up.

But it is very hard to do a good response on all counts when you have to do it for 18 months (time from first outbreak until virus is expected).

Links: Poland https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/

New York https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

Sweden https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by kgwgk on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:01AM (#24931202)
> the way New York and Sweden

It's funny, the proponents of "the Swedish way" say that they are nothing like each other.

Of course in reality Sweden has had "strong recommendations" in place for months, and they are getting stricter.

https://www.thelocal.se/20201029/new-coronavirus-measures-fo...

"According to the new guidelines, which are outlined on the Public Health Agency's website and are effective immediately, everyone in Stockholm, Västra Götaland and Östergötland are strongly urged to:

"Refrain from being in indoor environments such as shops, shopping centres, museums, libraries, swimming pools and gyms. Necessary visits to for example grocery stores and pharmacies are ok.

"Refrain from attending, for example, meetings, concerts, performances, sports training, matches and competitions. This advisory does not apply to sports training for children born 2005 or later.

"If possible avoid physical contact with people other than those you live with. According to the Public Health Agency, this includes for example attending or throwing a party or similar social gatherings."

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by tpmx on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:12AM (#24931358)
These were announced two hours ago and are by far the harshest we've had so far in Sweden. They also only cover 43% of the population. (Edit: 57%, also counting the Skåne region's similar recommendations)
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by exDM69 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:10AM (#24931328)
> New York and Sweden have tackled the virus have been the most consistent. There was a large first wave, but no second wave (measured in deaths).

Sweden reported all time high new case numbers today. They have also enacted stricter restrictions in recent days than they've done so far.

The death numbers haven't risen yet, but hospitalizations are on the way up.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by akiselev on Thursday October 29, 2020 @12:14PM (#24932063)
> On the other end of the spectrum there are countries such as Poland with no initial first wave back in March. But it seems you can only go for so long before the virus turns up.

Incidentally, the Marshall Islands just had their first case (and from my arcgis dashboard it looks like a second one). If one of the world's most remote islands with a population of under 60,000 can get it within a year, there's little hope to keep it out of anywhere.

How long until tribes like the Sentinelese [1] get coronavirus? (Thankfully many of these tribes are very hostile and it's illegal to even attempt to make contact precisely because of previous transmission during contact)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by SomeoneFromCA on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:08AM (#24931302)
First of all, Sweden is not done yet, at all. Secondly, every time I look at Sweden's deaths vs cases graph , I get this odd feeling, that it cannot be possible, that their peek deaths is before the peak of the cases. I do not know if I can trust their current stats.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by nradov on Thursday October 29, 2020 @01:02PM (#24932604)
You really can't trust case numbers from almost any country due to widespread differences in testing. Most asymptomatic cases never get tested or counted. Only death statistics are somewhat reliable and comparable.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-william-farrs-way-out...

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by tpmx on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:19AM (#24931451)
Swedish skeptic of "the Tegnell/Swedish approach" here: I trust the numbers, but there's a delay in reporting the deaths - it takes at least 10 days to get ~95% of them. There are multiple checks/tests at various stages and it takes time.

Takeaway: Don't trust the latest week's death numbers from Sweden, but trust the ones before that.

The elder care homes etc have gotten a lot better at protecting the people living there.

Having said that, I'm just waiting for things to explode again - and it just takes a few elder care homes to get infected for lots of people to die.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by apozem on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:46AM (#24931020)
My wife and I have been watching a ton of movies in quarantine and it feels genuinely weird to see images of the old world with huge crowds of unmasked people.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by the_only_law on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:58AM (#24931162)
There were a few months when I just didn't leave the apartment at all (outside of very basic tasks generally in the evening). When I finally stepped outside one morning, everything just looked surreal.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by eyelidlessness on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:06AM (#24931272)
I didn’t leave my property (house/yard) at all for a couple months. And even then, as my puppy needed more activity, we never ventured to anywhere with a lot of people. When I had to take her in to the vet last month, in my neighborhood’s little downtown area, I just felt completely unsettled. I have no idea how people who have to be out in public places daily do it.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by the_svd_doctor on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:00AM (#24931177)
So so true. Every time I am like “wait, but what about social distancing?”. “Ho right. It’s 1980.”
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sigmaprimus on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:14AM (#24931386)
I have the same feelings, it is very similar to how I feel when I see the WTC twin towers in older movies.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by apozem on Thursday October 29, 2020 @12:33PM (#24932298)
Along those lines, it's low-key fascinating for me to see unintentional 9/11 imagery in pre-9/11 movies. Look at something like True Lies, which treats a terrorist attack and a plane destroying a building as lighthearted action movie fare.

You never see that kind of imagery treated so flippantly after 9/11. 2000s movies with 9/11 analogues (War of the Worlds, Munich, Cloverfield, etc.) deal with it mostly indirectly and always as deep-set trauma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_entertainment_affected...

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by scruple on Thursday October 29, 2020 @12:50PM (#24932492)
Kind of like flying in the 80s and 90s vs. the post-911 hellscape that our domestic airports have become.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by oblio on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:38AM (#24930912)
It's worse than that. Entire generations have had PTSD because of major events such as this one. For their entire lives.

Edit: How is this being downvoted? It's just the truth, the stress of isolation and the permanent health risk from a pandemic have real traumatic effects. Is anyone denying this?

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by Arnt on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:33AM (#24931603)
Probably for "such as this". You might do better by elaborating what events you have in mind and why they were "such as this". Elaborating what traits made them equivalent with this.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by oblio on Thursday October 29, 2020 @01:02PM (#24932607)
WW1, the Spanish flu, the Great Depression, WW2, the Oil Crash, 9/11, ...

Big, tragic events that impacted a lot of people.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by Arnt on Thursday November 05, 2020 @04:26PM (#25002158)
Did you just explain that everyone over 20 has PTSD, since everyone lived through at least one of those?
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by ls612 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:07AM (#24931281)
I’d be comfortable doing anything I did in December 2019 today. People face wildly heterogeneous risks from this virus and should be allowed to respond accordingly. I’m young, healthy, and haven’t ever visited a nursing home (where 80% of the deaths in my state are) since 2002 when I was six years old. So my response to corona is basically “oh well”. Other people will be in different situations and should make decisions for themselves accordingly. But a one size fits all policy for a virus which varies 1000-fold in severity is nuts.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by everdrive on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:17AM (#24931433)
Except that you can't prevent yourself from spreading it others, who may be at risk.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by nathanaldensr on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:22AM (#24931488)
Then the at-risk should be in isolation, not the low-risk and healthy. It's insane to stop the world because of a tiny percentage of the population. Humans can't live like this, even if it means slightly more deaths over time.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by yangwuzrite on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:38PM (#24933862)
So exactly what percentage death rate does it become necessary for you to accept personal inconvenience?
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by KnightOfWords on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:15AM (#24931396)
The problem here is the more the virus spreads the more everyone is put at risk.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sershe on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:06PM (#24933312)
Personally I'm ready to do all of that right now, wearing a mask indoors (and already go to big box stores; concerts are not happening and I don't need to take transit given WFH). I do outdoor activities and it's crowded everywhere, as usual if not more... flying to Red Rocks to climb in a week or two ;)

The pandemic made me really grateful that I live in America, in fact... the freedoms and the culture of liberty is, most of the time, just an abstraction for someone as privileged and non-prominent as myself, but then you compare the way lockdowns are handled to my native Russia, with draconian and sometimes bizarre enforcement, as well as the stories from Europe, NZ, Australia, etc., and you realize how important both are. I feel the US, even the blue states, are very different in part because the officials realize the enforcement against individuals would cause massive backlash, and not hold up well in court if it came to that. Too bad they have businesses by the balls, so not everything is opened.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by xg15 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:53AM (#24931091)
> I expect it will be some time before my brain isn't reflexively telling me to wear a mask and avoid crowds.

Then keep wearing a mask. In Asian countries this apparently became part of the general life style after SARS and with generally positive consequences from what you can read.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by mrguyorama on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:34AM (#24931614)
Indeed, I hope mask wearing becomes normal for flu seasons and such. It's such a small and easy thing to do with huge benefits
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sharken on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:11PM (#24933396)
Is there a scientific study that backs up the “huge benefits” claim ?
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by pintxo on Thursday October 29, 2020 @05:34PM (#24936223)
Not scientific, but east Asia seems to be managing this little Virus rather well.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by peteretep on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:42PM (#24938923)
I live in a country (Thailand) which went on full lockdown, and now has no local transmission. In Bangkok, everyone is still wearing masks when out and about, but nightclubs and restaurants have all re-opened without people being masked, and I've been on the islands for a few weeks where compliance is _much_ more lax and now it feels weird being back in Bangkok where masks are required again. In short: it got back to "normal" pretty quickly once people were no longer worried about transmission, in a country that took it much, much more seriously than Western countries at first -- and in many ways still is (it's veeeery hard to get into Thailand at the moment).
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by tzs on Thursday October 29, 2020 @04:39PM (#24935490)
I'm hoping that we keep, at least in winter, the habit of mask wearing when in crowded places.

Just because colds and flu aren't likely to hospitalize me or cause any lasting damage doesn't mean I don't mind getting them. They still suck.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by david422 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:52AM (#24931086)
I look out the window and sometimes I feel like a large chunk of the world already seems to be doing activities that are "back to normal". I've been in and still am in my own little bubble right now.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by ericmcer on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:05AM (#24931250)
The same amount of time it took me to get used to wearing a mask? I imagine each experience of being around large groups and not getting sick will erode my fears.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by throwaway3699 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:57AM (#24931145)
I would be happy tomorrow, my only concern is for the vulnerable which is why I'll put up with masks. But I don't care for them.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by marakv2 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:04PM (#24938707)
Fairly normal for me as it's had to continue herne on Japan. More masks(permanent now), frequent sanitizer and hand washing is part of the norm now.

I (and other teachers I have spoken with over here) am quite comfortable wearing a mask all the time now. Took a bit to get useto though.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by claudeganon on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:39AM (#24930925)
Wearing a mask to avoid contracting or spreading illness, to avoid air pollution, or just because you don’t feel like shaving or putting on makeup is common across all of Southeast Asia. If Americans adopted this incredibly rational practice, it would be great for everyone.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by conductr on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:07AM (#24931294)
I feel pretty comfortable now. My personal risk profile is low. Most of my limitations are due to trying to be a good member of society. That said, I Probably only feel fully comfortable once I get COVID and recover. I know reoccurrence is possible but seems edge.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by brundolf on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:29AM (#24931560)
For ~6 months we were hardcore; no going anywhere around people unless absolutely necessary. Masks anytime people would be within 10ft. Spend as little time indoors (outside of the house) as possible. No visiting friends, no visiting family, nothing.

Recently we've started to very slowly relax things. It's become clear that surfaces aren't really a transmission vector, for one, and that generally if you're outside (or in a well-filtered space) and people use masks you're probably fine. We went to the botanical gardens last weekend. My partner's friends are having a back yard (masked) movie night that we may go to. We're contemplating going to my parents' house for Christmas if we can get everyone to hardcore-quarantine in the weeks leading up to it.

I'm normally an introverted person, but even just the thought of some of these allowances has lifted my spirit dramatically.

But no: despite all that I have no intention of sitting down for a meal at a restaurant anytime soon, much less going to a big box store when I could simply order a delivery. The risk/reward just doesn't work out there until there's a vaccine and it works.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sharken on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:15PM (#24933465)
Restrictions are most certainly not being reduced now, look to Ireland, Czechia and Poland to name but a few examples.

Any kind of normality will only return when a vaccine is here, and it’s still 6-8 months away.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sk2020 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:05AM (#24931262)
I’m not bothered by it now. The IFR for me is around 3x10-5. I live in a city in the top 10 of per-capita homicide rates in the country. Just living here is more dangerous than SARS. The risk of getting thrush from my mask also bothers me.

The mask pressure will be a lot less after the election, so I wouldn’t worry.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by yangwuzrite on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:40PM (#24933891)
There's no candida or thrush risk from a mask if you don't wear it more than a day at a time.

You wouldn't wear the same set of underwear day after day, don't do it with a mask, either.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by sk2020 on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:01PM (#24945072)
Nobody I know has a mask for every day. Masks for which there is no standard of construction or performance. They’re almost entirely for show.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by tomjen3 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:48AM (#24931043)
I don't think I will ever be comfortable shaking hands with strangers.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by merrywhether on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:05AM (#24931256)
I would be happy for handshakes to go away. Disease aside, some people approach them as obnoxious dominance exercises, others are creepy about them, etc.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by thesis on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:36AM (#24931636)
And some people are genuinely happy to shake your hand and greet you. Why only focus on the negative.

With that being said.. don't shake hands if you don't want to.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by bradlys on Thursday October 29, 2020 @03:55PM (#24934931)
Honestly - without a vaccine - I'll never be comfortable again. If I happenstance get covid, recover with no damage, develop immunity, and can't pass it onto others - I'd feel fine.

One of the big reasons is that I do a lot of social dancing. Washing your hands and what not isn't sufficient there. You're getting full body contact with a lot of heavy breathing. Sadly - I think social dancing will be dead for the next few years because this. Might be fine - it'll probably get a lot of the weirdos out of the scene.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by nradov on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:23AM (#24931496)
I am comfortable right now. I never stopped being uncomfortable with those things because for me personally the risk is miniscule. I can understand how others in high risk groups are concerned, but the reality is that the baseline danger level going forward is always going to be a little higher than in was in 2019. Not even a vaccine will change that reality so we're eventually going to have to get over our fears.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by asdff on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:42PM (#24933935)
If I'm vaccinated I'm going right back to what I was doing before. I don't care if the train is sardines again if I'm immune. Everything hinges on vaccination. I'm pretty confident my employer will innoculate me not long after the vaccine is available, probably months before the general public.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by rtx on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:49AM (#24931053)
I am fortunate enough to wait out anther year, I hope herd immunity would have kicked in by then. Not sure about these rushed vaccines will wait for six months after they are released.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by CodeWriter23 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:56AM (#24931141)
I’m ready to go right now. We know a lot more about this disease than we did 8 months ago. First and foremost, the strong correlation between severe illness and Vitamin D deficiency, now demonstrated in numerous cohort studies in multiple nations. Combine that with the blood antibody program and we’re actually more prepared for handling this virus than the seasonal flu.
Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by tboyd47 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:00AM (#24931185)
I was done being scared of the virus in April when I saw all the lies and scams piling up. I've been back to normal life as much as possible. Most of my family and friends are the same way. That includes some who are over 60 years old. On the list of things I worry about, coronavirus is not even on the top 10. As soon as the restrictions are lifted, I will return to every normal activity.

I still obey the law, and I wear a mask around others who feel fear, because I respect them as people and want them to feel comfortable around me. I understand that some people feel hatred or resentment towards me because of my lack of fear of coronavirus, but I do not reciprocate their feelings.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by verisimilidude on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:18AM (#24931437)
You shouldn’t wear masks to “make people feel comfortable”. You should wear masks because even asymptomatic people can spread the disease. You could unknowingly catch and help spread the disease to someone who is vulnerable. Someone you might not even know.

You’re right not to fear COVID for yourself; statistics support that view. But common, non-medical masks are not for personal safety. They’re for preventing community spread.

Re:US may not be back to normal until 2022, Fauci says by pasabagi on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:09AM (#24931315)
Nothing says 'fearless' like taking 'risks' where you're safe, but other people are endangered.