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Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by waheoo on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @12:51AM (#24915353)
I'm sure it has nothing to do with stolen / looted Egyptian artifacts residing in museums around the world.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by GuardianCaveman on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:22AM (#24915848)
Modern Egyptians have almost no dna connection to ancient Egyptians. They are descendants of migrants and invaders. They are also poor custodians of their own treasures. The Malawi museum was looted and wiped out in 2013 in Egypt. When I visited in 2016 I had people offering to take me to climb or explore the pyramids by bribing the guards. https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/health/ancient-egypt-mummy-dn...
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Bayart on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:19AM (#24916121)
>Modern Egyptians have almost no dna connection to ancient Egyptians.

That's just false. Modern Egyptians are quite clearly and cleanly descended from Bronze Age Egyptians. There's quite a bit of African and Arabic input, but not to the point of the population being unrecognizable.

It's nearly impossible to replace a settled, agricultural population with immigration. There needs to be active, systemic policy of ethnic purge.

It would be a fair point to say they have little to no cultural connection to pre-Islamic Egypt, but bringing genetic into the mix is specious.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by ralfd on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:10AM (#24917430)
Did you read the linked article by parent poster? There could be maybe made an argument that Copts are the descendants of ancient Egyptians:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bewilderedcopt/status/10817763566...

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by ummonk on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:21AM (#24917491)
All the linked article showed is that they gained 8% sub-saharan ancestry. That's not much of a shift.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by rozab on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @10:47AM (#24919316)
I've seen a lot of ethnonationalist rhetoric online by middle eastern christian groups stating that they are the true heirs to the region, and that this is justifiable by genetics. I would take such claims with a large wheelbarrow of salt.

Looking further up that thread, someone else said:

>And BTW the Coptic Christians in Egypt are the REAL Egyptians not Arab invaders.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by teshier-A on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @11:10AM (#24919631)
It seems to be the scientific consensus. I personally don't think genetics carry any hereditary claim to a thousand years old culture but it always bothers me to see people go against state of the art scientific conclusions (unless they have good evidence of their own).

>Copts share the same main ancestral component than North African and Middle East populations (dark blue), supporting a common origin with Egypt (or other North African/Middle Eastern populations). They are known to be the most ancient population of Egypt and at k = 4 (Fig.3), they show their own component (dark green) different from the current Egyptian population which is closer to the Arabic population of Qatar.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4446898/

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by waheoo on Thursday October 29, 2020 @08:24PM (#24937768)
Ah I get it, the savages don't deserve it.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by PrinceKropotkin on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:50AM (#24916285)
Who said anything about DNA?

Regardless, it's heinous to justify a crime like this. It also leaves an extremely bitter taste to come across a museum in Europe with artifacts stolen during some more blatantly colonial period that they forgot to return.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by throwawasdf on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @05:10AM (#24916751)
There's nothing to return. Europeans are doing a service to humanity by preserving the history of our collective past. Look at what happened with the artefacts that were left behind: destruction at the hands of invaders, sometimes sponsored by the polity of the time.

Look at what ISIS did to the pre-Islamic artefacts present in the territory they controlled.

Look what Saddam Hussein did (even with somewhat good intentions) by trying to "modernize" the remains of the Ishtar Gate for the consumption of the local people, while ignoring pleas from archæologists to let them thoroughly review the sites beforehand.

I, for one, am thankful that I can go to the Louvre and learn about our shared ancient history, rather than these artefacts ending up as a paper weight in some oligarch's office, as would have been bound to happen otherwise.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by DrAwdeOccarim on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:02AM (#24917046)
I had this same discussions with a group of New Zealand'ers a few weeks ago on reddit. I was so surprised that the vocal commenters thought it best to return all artifacts to their rightful owners. I tried to point out that one person's rightful owner is another's despot, and what about all the examples of things being destroyed at the hands of poor stewardship? The main retort was "New Zealand is not some backwater country" which of course I agree but where do you draw the line? That's when I backed away slowly realizing the frothing mob was not interested in preserving shared history as much as revenge/retribution for colonial slights.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Fumtumi on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @05:52AM (#24916992)
I'd like to add something:

We went to Iran for our holiday and we went to Persepolis and often enough it was mentioned that certain items (small and very big) are not here but you can see them in London or Paris ...

It is quite irritating to be honest traveling from Europe to Iran and realizing how much actually is at home.

Nonetheless, while i think this is not an easy topic, we europen were who traveled there and realized that this thing is actually worth digging out and saving. Before those stones got taken away slowly and steadily.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Knufen on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:10AM (#24916083)
God forbid we share bread between countries
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by ummonk on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:24AM (#24917510)
And yeast culture.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by blix on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:13AM (#24915798)
> Blackley fantasizes about one day selling ancient Egyptian bread commercially.

I'm so glad he's taking a stand against cultural appropriation!

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by peteretep on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:30AM (#24916185)
I had a “Hawaiian” pizza the other day from a Thai manufacturer which used thousand island sauce and was advertised as having “Korean Fried Chicken” making up the crust. This idea of cultural appropriation of food is very American-centric.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by jakear on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @05:18AM (#24916789)
I quite enjoy the concept that the Hawaiian pizza uses “thousand island” sauce. Though I’m not sure if I’d like the flavor.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by seg_lol on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @01:42PM (#24921786)
Wash it down with a shot of Jose.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by RobRivera on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:07AM (#24916399)
There comment is sarcastic
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by noja on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:51AM (#24915998)
Pretty much all of the rest of the world (look outside America) does not follow this "cultural appropriation" idea.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by derbOac on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:44AM (#24917626)
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by FeepingCreature on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @08:34AM (#24917951)
This is not about cultural but brand appropriation.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Alex3917 on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:24AM (#24915856)
Selling it commercially would be pretty much the exact opposite of cultural appropriation.

Cultural appropriation would be “posting a shitty, burned, flat loaf saying, ‘Welp I guess this is what the ancient Egyptians had to deal with!’”

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by blix on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:30AM (#24915892)
I don't know what definition of cultural appropriation you are using where using someone else's culture for profit doesn't count.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Alex3917 on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @09:31AM (#24918520)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

Cultural appropriation doesn't mean appropriating things from another culture. It's an actual term with a specific meaning.

It means specifically misrepresenting a cultural practice in order to make another culture look inferior. E.g. if you take something that isn't actually anything like what the Egyptians ate and tell everyone how terrible it is, then that would be cultural appropriation. Making bread the way the Egyptians made it would not be cultural appropriation, nor would selling it.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by schrijver on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @11:48AM (#24920159)
The term has a broader meaning than you make it seem. According to the link you posted yourself, cultural appropriation appears “[when] cultural elements are copied from a minority culture by members of a dominant culture [and] these elements are used outside of their original cultural context”.

In most cases, those appropriating other cultures actually love whatever they appropriate. That’s why they copied it in the first place. A lot of the flack for cultural appropriation comes not from that it ridicules other cultures, but rather that the artists/entrepreneurs/etc with visibility tend to be those from the dominant culture. They can profit from the ‘cool’ factor of appropriating other cultures, whereas for those from minorities that are being appropriated it is hard to find a spotlight.

Of course the kind of cultural appropriation that you describe also exists, i.e. wearing a native american headdress to a party or something like this. But that would be a subset and is not the generally used definition.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by Alex3917 on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:53PM (#24922667)
I guess to me using something outside of its original context is just a subset of misrepresentation, in the sense that the value of the practice in question isn't being accurately portrayed.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by emiliobumachar on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @10:00AM (#24918782)
The link you posted opens with "Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity."

I read the top summary and the overview section, and it still looks to me that yes, it does mean appropriating things from another culture.

Any subtlety I'm missing? Would you take a shot at summarizing the definition you hold?

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by planetsmashr on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:33AM (#24915905)
Someone better tell the Koreans who run the sushi restaurant down the street.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by narag on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:23AM (#24916485)
someone else's culture

Ouch.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by prox on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:43AM (#24915966)
Appropriate : “to make your own”

adpropriare "to make one's own," from Latin ad "to" (see ad-) + propriare "take as one's own,"

It means that I take something from culture X and pretend that it is from my culture, and/or in some cases twist it so that it makes my culture seem more superior.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by kortilla on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:55AM (#24916009)
> It means that I take something from culture X and pretend that it is from my culture

That’s literally how new things came to be in every larger culture. Sushi didn’t magically come into existence across all of Japan simultaneously. Rice techniques were continually improved upon and exchanged throughout the hundreds of cultures across Asia.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by chmod775 on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:23AM (#24916133)
> Sushi didn’t magically come into existence across all of Japan simultaneously.

Welp. It didn't even originate in Japan specifically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sushi

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by prox on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:30AM (#24916183)
Exactly my point. Most things gradually get incorporated into a larger culture, like yoga.

If I take yoga, and call it something else without actually changing the fundamentals and say it is superior, that’s appropriation.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by kortilla on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:43PM (#24925019)
Nope, it’s called appropriation even if you credit the original culture and keep the same name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

A restaurant was protested for cultural appropriation because the owner was white and it was serving Sonoran recipes under the original name. It was just the fact that a white person was profiting off of that particular subculture that made it appropriation.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by NoOneNew on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @09:15AM (#24918333)
So... you literally just described "progress" throughout all of human history. The Greeks and Roman are a good example of that. The entire back and forth history of the Silk Road (the real one). Even the Crusades had cultural dumps back and forth. Um, Japan is also considered the modern day "Rome" when it comes to taking other inventions and improving on it beyond their creator's imaginations. Like, are we going to yell cultural appropriation against the Japanese for building the Mitsubishi Zero (I don't know enough about sushi to talk about it beyond the california roll being a fucking abomination)? They didn't invent the airplane, but I dare you to find a history nut who isn't going to talk kindly about the engineering and general marvel that plane was for its time, along with how it forced the USA to adapt their learning and counter maneuvers to combat it. It was a super important plane to both military and aviation history, even though it's technically a piece of cultural appropriation.

Ever think the whole thing is just making a mountain out of a mole hill since it's never the "offended culture" that's ever offended, but some random person in San Fran or Los Angeles without a real job?

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by prox on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @11:01AM (#24919516)
You take it into to far wide a scope. It is something that is, for the most part a modern notion in the context of taking from somebodies culture and presenting it either as yours to show your cultural superiority, and obfuscating in some cases the origin. Basically it’s the same as if copied your shiny new app you worked on and declaring I made it, or invented it. I am appropriating your work as mine.
Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by blix on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @01:00PM (#24921177)
I think your scope is too narrow.

Consider white girls at music festivals wearing bindis as a fashion statement. I don't think this fits your definition, but it is a popular example of cultural appropriation.

Re:Xbox creator Seamus Blackley baked a 4,500-year-old Egypt... by SirHound on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:10AM (#24915781)
It’s bread