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Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by tetris11 on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:14AM (#24825230)
One way to get around the cameras and the invigilator in the room for a live chess match is to have a small wireless vibrating device somewhere on your body that can encode information such as coordinates and move difficulty.

Someone else would have to be watching the game and doing the computer doping on tlyour behalf though

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by Just1689 on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:25AM (#24825301)
When I played (at a national level) people would have a laptop connected and playing in another room. They would play the enemies moves on the computer as the player and playing in the tournament would play the moves made by the computer.

I remember a few people getting caught. What's funny about this is that the top players were still better than the AI running on a laptop (back then) and the cheaters occasionally got knocked out early on.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by sillysaurusx on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:50AM (#24825450)
How could the top players be better than any chess engine? It seems like even in 2000 any off the shelf chess engine could beat any human. But I guess not...

It would be neat to see the elo of the engines over time.

EDIT: Heh, deep blue’s famous match happened in 1997. I guess this really is possible. It’s weird growing up with the idea that “every chess engine can beat humans every time”; I wonder when that became true.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by dalbasal on Monday October 19, 2020 @09:41AM (#24826256)
There's a "no news" zone between a discovery and proliferation. In 1997, deep blue become superhuman.. proving the point. The average consumer engine was still like average tournament player with really weird moves. It took another decade before superhuman engines became widely available to normal people.

That decade gap is where we often mispredict the future. Once a point is proven, we expect instant impact. Reality takes time.

It took 15-20 years after superhuman chess engines were invented before they really impacted chess. Cheating is one impact, but novelty is another one. "Computer moves" are learned by GMs and played in world class tournaments. Contributing novelties is a mark of influence in chess. Even computer strategies are starting to appear in human tournaments.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by pashamur on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:11PM (#24832080)
There was also the little fact that Kasparov was not playing his top chess in the 1997 match - the loss in the sixth game was considered very bizarre at the time (him going for the Caro-Kann, while not having much experience in that opening)

His rematch against Deep Junior (the 2003 computer) ended in a 3-3 tie, so humans were actually able to hold off computer for quite a bit longer than 1997...

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by unnouinceput on Monday October 19, 2020 @02:38PM (#24829426)
Friendly reminder your GTX 1080 is more powerful than "Deeper blue" (not deep blue beat Kasparov, but deeper blue, which was a heavy upgrade) so unless you're better then Kasparov any kid could beat you through cheating.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by junar on Monday October 19, 2020 @04:46PM (#24830828)
A more realistic setup is Stockfish on a 4+ core CPU desktop, or maybe on a modern smartphone. GPU chess engines aren't as useful to the majority of machines without a high-end card.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by pacbard on Monday October 19, 2020 @11:44AM (#24827387)
The difference between a super GM and stockfish is that a super GM will play moves the "feel natural" to a human given the current position on the board. A chess engine won't care about what is natural and will maximize the position 15-20 positions down the line. For this reason, they will make sometimes a weird move given the current position that will result in an advantage a lot of moves downstream.

One of the main reasons that Petrosian "got caught" was other GMs (see Hikaru's YouTube video on this) pointing out how unnatural some of his moves felt to them and considering the speed at which he supposedly calculated them.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by pashamur on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:14PM (#24832105)
That is true of traditional chess engines, but no longer true for neural net (self-taught) engines that learn the rules of chess by simulating millions of games against itself.

I've played an early version of one of those (its playing strength is roughly proportional to the amount of training it has done) and it was quite human-like in its behavior, even dropping pieces and making very human-like mistakes.

Look up AlphaZero and the open source port LeelaChess :) Once those become commercially available, it's going to be very hard to detect engine usage.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by nurettin on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:55AM (#24825487)
Super GMs often catch cheaters by creating a stale board in the late mid-game and watch opponents make pointless moves many times in a row. It becomes pretty obvious at that moment.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by kaszanka on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:13AM (#24825609)
As someone who only knows the very basics of chess, what do you mean by "stale board"? Searching for that term didn't turn up any interesting results.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by erfgh on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:29AM (#24825710)
He means that a real GM would know that the position is a draw and would offer a draw and stop playing. The cheater doesn't know so he has the engine keep playing forever.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by nurettin on Monday October 19, 2020 @10:22AM (#24826611)
By a stale board I mean a board state where there are no sensible moves in order to create an advantage. i.e. there are no good pawn moves, no good knight or bishop re-positions, castles mostly stuck and the engine pretty much shows no point difference.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by jsjohnst on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:27AM (#24825696)
I’m not sure, maybe OP means a board where you would customarily ask for a draw as there is no way for you to win and the opponent could only get a stalemate at best.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by beaconstudios on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:22AM (#24825667)
I think they mean a closed position without many meaningful moves available. Often times real players make small incremental positional improvements and probe weaknesses, and engines take completely different lines.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by bjourne on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:20PM (#24832168)
> EDIT: Heh, deep blue’s famous match happened in 1997. I guess this really is possible. It’s weird growing up with the idea that “every chess engine can beat humans every time”; I wonder when that became true.

There is an interesting section in Hofstaeder's Gödel, Escher, Bach from 1979 where he speculates that, despite the rapid progress of technology, computers might never be able to play chess at a human level!

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by brbsix on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:13AM (#24825607)
It would be easy enough to have a remote friend watching a mirror of your screen. Use an inductive loop earpiece hidden inside your ear hooked up to a phone and they could read out your next moves. I suppose you could write a program using CV to decode the opponents moves on screen and translate them into chess software in lieu of a friend performing the same task, but that's a bit overkill.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by Hyolobrika on Monday October 19, 2020 @06:43PM (#24831842)
Would you need to use computer vision or could you just decode the state of the DOM if on a chess website or monitor the telnet connection if on FICS?
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by wolf550e on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:32AM (#24825336)
play in a Faraday cage
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by koolba on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:49AM (#24825437)
As electronic devices become smaller and more integrated, I bet “Faraday Cage Match” is going to be a real thing.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by matsemann on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:19AM (#24825644)
While not a Faraday cage, for some high-ranked tournaments (like the WC title) they are now subjected to a scan almost like at an airport before entering a sealed room.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by bluGill on Monday October 19, 2020 @02:43PM (#24829486)
The rules state that the playing space includes a bathroom, a place to smoke, and the halls between. There are limits to what you are allowed to have in the playing space.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by Someone on Monday October 19, 2020 @10:29AM (#24826683)
You would have to close the room for sounds and light, too.

To be sure, shield it from any form of radiation (neutrons, gamma rays, etc.), too. Even getting a single bit “there’s a mate in less than 7 moves” to a player could be (possibly rarely) useful, as it would direct a player’s search for a move and/or have them commit more time looking for a move.

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by ganeshkrishnan on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:52AM (#24825460)
You can't even play online then
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by gambiting on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:12AM (#24825602)
I mean, ethernet cables exist.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by worstenbrood on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:27AM (#24825693)
My god, did we hit the spot where people think everything is wireless ...
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by ganeshkrishnan on Monday October 19, 2020 @03:23PM (#24829872)
then you can cheat with an ethernet cable as well...
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by tomcooks on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:41AM (#24825383)
> Someone else would have to be watching the game and doing the computer doping on tlyour behalf though

Trivial with the Stockfish open source chess engine

Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by DeusExMachina on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:41AM (#24825384)
It would probably be simpler to add a second camera at the back of the player, showing is screen and surroundings.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by jml7c5 on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:02AM (#24825533)
This would not detect the vibrating device that parent described.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by lemagedurage on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:27AM (#24825311)
The invigilator could do a body check, scan for electronics, like they do in airport security.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by BuildTheRobots on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:35AM (#24825746)
If people are determined to cheat, cheat they will. Bluetooth controlled vibrating butplugs are an off the shelf product at this point; not sure if most scanners will show internal objects.
Re:Chess’s Cheating Crisis by 0-_-0 on Monday October 19, 2020 @08:58AM (#24825893)
And thus the term "chess playing buttplug" is used for the very first time in history...