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Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by cmckn on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @05:59PM (#24770819)
I guess my confusion is basically that: if I want to use my phone while it charges, I just plug it in with a lightning cable. I don’t need it to “wirelessly” charge if I’m having to connect something to the device anyway. It seems to be a weird 3rd option for charging.

They’re definitely getting rid of the port, maybe next year.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by cpuguy83 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:11PM (#24772165)
Consider that iPad has replaced lightning with usb-c and that having ports takes up a lot of space... I think they are just planning to phase out lightning and go port-less on the iPhone.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by tcoff91 on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:40PM (#24772329)
How the hell will car play work without a port?
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by twodayslate on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:52PM (#24772380)
Wireless CarPlay already exists
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by OkGoDoIt on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:34PM (#24772562)
Sure, it has existed for several years. But I’ve yet to drive a single car that supports it. By my understanding only super expensive high-end luxury cars support it, and even then it’s hit and miss. I’ve never seen it with my own eyes.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by bluk on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:27PM (#24772822)
https://www.cars.com/articles/wireless-apple-carplay-and-and... lists 2019 model cars with Wireless CarPlay. I've driven one and tried out the wireless CarPlay, and it works more or less like the wired version (no lag, as smooth as wired CarPlay AFAICT). The only major inconvenience is probably that, if you have a passenger and they want to use their phone for music, you will need to pair their phone to the car instead of just finding the wire and plugging in. Takes about 30 seconds to a minute to go through all the setup. While the cars listed are not cheap by any means, there are a few moderately optioned minivans around the same cost of some of the less expensive cars from BMW (base cost around $38K USD).

Honda is also rumored to be adding wireless support ( https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/10/wireless-carplay-... ) for their 2021 Accord model so seems the feature is become available on more affordable cars too.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gruturo on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:59AM (#24774277)
Beware of BMW pulling unethical crap on its customers by attempting to extract an annual fee for CarPlay: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/08/this-is-why-bmw-charges-80...

They even tried to blame Apple for this, only to have their lie publicly called out by Apple. This created such outrage that the decision had to be reversed, but for me that's enough - they showed their true colors and are very likely to come up with further crap in the future.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/4/20995630/bmw-apple-carpla...

Oh I just noticed it was discussed here on HN too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16195529

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by bluk on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:14PM (#24782305)
I agree that it was ridiculous and to be on guard for these shenanigans. 100%.

Today though, BMW is not charging a “subscription” fee and much more importantly, all of their iDrive data is provided for free with free software updates. And yes, competitive pressure probably forced them to, but it is much better than just 5 or 6 years ago where you were charged for yearly map updates by buying a DVD. They are also the first car manufacturer to support the CarKey feature so they have changed (for now anyways).

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by kalleboo on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:19AM (#24773355)
I get Facebook ads for a third-party wireless CarPlay dongle that plugs into a car that has wired CarPlay support.

Apple could make a first-party one.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by red_phone on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:52PM (#24772952)
The upper trim levels of the ‘21 Honda Accord have it.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by cmckn on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:26AM (#24773386)
Aw man, my 2019 doesn’t. I rarely need to charge in the car, and it’d be so nice to use CarPlay without having to buckle my phone in
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by Angostura on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:11AM (#24774993)
There are dongles available - no, really.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by geronb on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:20PM (#24772796)
Almost all BMWs from the past few years have it. We have a 2017 X5 and wireless CarPlay works very well and is very convenient.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by binaryblitz on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:26AM (#24773086)
An X5 is a pretty high-end luxury car.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by miskin on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:28AM (#24774420)
My hybrid Mini Countryman supports it and it works very well.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by xondono on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:41AM (#24774174)
An X1 like mine isn’t, and it has wireless CarPlay too
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by xattt on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:47AM (#24775165)
I would presume that they may have some sort of data transfer baked into the puck that will work at USB speeds for CarPlay?
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by CPLX on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:47PM (#24772357)
My current car does Carplay wirelessly. You connect via WiFi.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:50PM (#24772368)
Bluetooth? Heck, even without car play it works fairly well.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by DominikPeters on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @06:41PM (#24771136)
Two advantages: (1) the Lightning port can wear out if used often, but the magnets won't; (2) you can attach and remove the phone from a magnetic charger with one hand and without looking / in the dark.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by contravariant on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @06:46PM (#24771182)
>the Lightning port can wear out if used often

Wait what? I hope you're just saying it can get scratched or warped with rough/improper use.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by millzlane on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:05PM (#24771331)
I have not had an iphone come in with a worn lighting port. 10/10 times it has been extremely packed pocket lint preventing the cable from seating correctly.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by throwanem on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:16PM (#24771421)
I've had that problem, but I've also had the cable clips in the sides of the socket lose some of their grip over time. They're spring steel, but even spring steel is still somewhat subject to plastic deformation with enough cycles.

It's never gotten bad enough to be a problem with mine, but I'm still happier to be using magnetic charging cables most of the time. That's primarily for the convenience of it, which is significant, but I don't mind that they also preserve the connector.

(They're especially convenient in the car. I have an SE, but even with a phone that supported inductive charging, I suspect I'd stick with the magnetic-mount-and-cable arrangement - it's exactly as convenient as inductive charging, with no risk of compromise on the strength of the mount in order to get one with half a transformer in it.)

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by mccolin on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @07:08PM (#24771363)
The lightning port can essentially loosen over time, meaning the “snap” of the cable grips less and the plug can become susceptible to falling out. This has happened to me, even as someone who takes good care of his phone.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by hvidgaard on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:34AM (#24773756)
Even on very old very carelessly used phones I have not seen this. Every single time the lightning cable does not snap into place, it's some packed lint that is the problem. It can be removed with some care and it works fine after that.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gowld on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:36PM (#24772574)
Have you tried canned air to clear debris?
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by thesmok on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:45AM (#24774193)
A wooden toothpick is perfect for cleaning lightning ports.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by xattt on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:54AM (#24775198)
I would not recommend canned air as it would drive lint further into the phone.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by jacobush on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:45AM (#24773815)
Moisture can cause permanent damage when charging. (Corrosion.)
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gkop on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:20PM (#24772797)
Any moving part will wear out eventually.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by sudosysgen on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @11:42PM (#24772910)
Everything under, around, inside and outside the sun will wear out eventually.

The lightning port is not even close to being one of the parts that will wear out first.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gkop on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:48AM (#24773831)
If the wireless charging mechanism is solid state, it’s immune from mechanical wear.

Mechanical wear matters for example if you have a Roku, and the buttons in the remote control physically wear out. You can just instead use your phone app to control it over WiFi, and the WiFi antenna will “never” wear out because it’s solid state. Source: I have an old Roku

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by sudosysgen on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:14PM (#24778273)
It's a good rule of thumb, but that doesn't check out in practice.

The wireless charging mechanism, while solid state, generates a lot of heat, which has the potential to degrade the battery especially in certain climates.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by Retric on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:18AM (#24775647)
Solid state devices can still fail from mechanical stress. Heat cycling and strong magnetic fields could be a problem for wireless charging even if they don’t need to be. The core issue is generally trying to use the cheapest solution, not just mechanical stress.

Ethernet connectors are probably the best example of this, for servers that might be moved every few years their cheap and maintain a solid connection. It’s really desktops and especially laptops where they become such a major issue.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gkop on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @10:52AM (#24777154)
I’m struggling to understand your point. Phones are closer to laptops in that in typical use a wired power connection is frequently plugged and unplugged, so mechanical wear is an important consideration. Why are you bringing up Ethernet on servers in this context, when as you say the pattern of use is utterly different?

I know almost nothing about wireless charging. But have fair experience with working with WiFi devices. In my lifetime, I have observed 0 cases of failure on the WiFi client mechanism, and exactly 1 case of a WiFi router failing due to hardware. Meanwhile, power plugs are the most common part I have experienced wearing out on consumer electronics. Have you experienced lots of failures of solid state electronics due to eg. hear cycling and magnetic fields?

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by Retric on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:38AM (#24777818)
My point was you need to design stuff for the use case and a healthy margin. Incandescent lightbulbs are perhaps the poster child for solid state devices which with a limited lifespan. You can design lightbulbs for a 100 year lifespan at the cost of efficiency and bulb brightness. Even then an incandescent bulbs lifespan is dramatically shorter if your power cycling it every 2 minutes. But eventually stuff like electromigration for example will be an issue for solid state devices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

When designing wireless charging the same efficiency vs lifespan tradeoffs exist. Sure, they might be fine, but don’t expect them to last 20 years or anything. Further, the mats are significantly more expensive than a cable.

PS: Connector specifications are generally a dumpster fire because nobody wants to be forced to build expensive cables. And even if the spec says X, if Y is cheaper and still mostly works then you can bet people will do Y. Failure tends take a while at which point people buy a new cable vs returning the old one etc.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gkop on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:46PM (#24778702)
Thanks! Your answer reinforces my personal preference for wires to supply power :)
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by tonyarkles on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:11AM (#24776091)
On my last phone, it's precisely the part that wore out first. A local guy replaced it for about $50 and I got another year of life out of the phone before I dropped it and broke the screen. (Note, this was an iPhone 6 that I replaced about a year ago)
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by sudosysgen on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:16PM (#24778302)
Sure, and for some people the part that wears out first is the third SoC capacitor.

In agreggate though, the lightning port isn't the first thing that will break, and if it breaks you can use wireless charging. Whereas if you only use wireless charging there is less redundancy and the part that actually wears out the fastest, the battery, will degrade faster due to the heat.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by 72deluxe on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:57AM (#24774586)
I think the sun will outlive the lightning port. Unless the sun explodes, in which case technically it would have ended prior to its contents hitting Earth and destroying the lightning port.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by sudosysgen on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:17PM (#24778319)
I didn't suggest that, I just said that everything wears out.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by state_less on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:37PM (#24772316)
(3) Lightning cables corrode quickly in the salty sea air.

Good inductive charging is an advantage here.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by torgian on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @08:27PM (#24771910)
I can’t agree. My iPhone 6 is about six years old, and the port still works like new.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by nmfisher on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:08PM (#24772153)
Counterpoint - I have an iPhone 6 that has exactly this problem. The cable doesn't get seated properly, so occasionally it stops charging or disconnects when attached to a computer.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by deberon on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:03AM (#24772992)
Try cleaning the pocket lint out of it. Major quality of life improvement for me.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by Angostura on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:43AM (#24775147)
Another +1 for lint. Use a wooden toothpick and be gentle
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by roydivision on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:58PM (#24778851)
This. I’ve just solved exactly those problems by cleaning out the hole.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by akg_67 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:11AM (#24773648)
I upgraded from 6S to 2nd gen SE because of intermittent charging of 6S. Over time, port became loose, cable didn’t fit and come out easily.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by binaryblitz on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:27AM (#24773090)
> you can attach and remove the phone from a magnetic charger with one hand and without looking / in the dark.

You can't do that with the cable?

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by _emacsomancer_ on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:47PM (#24772356)
I assume the non-swappable battery will give out long before the lightning port wears out.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by torgian on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:32AM (#24774440)
Well I live in taiwan, so it’s easy to find someone to swap out the battery.

I might upgrade to a 12. It’s a nice number; 6,12.... 18?

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by conception on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:01PM (#24772115)
The primary use case is watching a movie or listening to music with headphones. Can’t charge and listen without an extra dongle. Apples solution is BT headphone they sell but it’s a bad pattern.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by 72deluxe on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:59AM (#24774599)
I agree it is a bad pattern. Remove features from a device to force you to buy an alternative accessory. Nowhere else would anybody accept this - eg. a car that came without a steering wheel so you had to buy one.

Next they'll take the screen from the phone and force you to buy an accessory screen!

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by reaperducer on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:37AM (#24777805)
a car that came without a steering wheel so you had to buy one.

When I bought a new Ford pick-up truck in the 90's, it didn't come with a rear bumper. That was an add-on. I presume because different people will want different rear bumpers (regular, towing, something else).

When I lived in the desert, I regularly saw brand pick-up trucks without tailgates, or with various specialty ones, so I assume those are also optional.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by 72deluxe on Thursday October 15, 2020 @07:58AM (#24787629)
Thanks! Very informative!

What was it like living in the desert? Where abouts was it in the world? Sounds an interesting life.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by cmckn on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @09:11PM (#24772167)
Fair enough, but I bit the bullet on AirPods Pro earlier this year and have been really impressed.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by smcl on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:21AM (#24774383)
I've used Apple phones for the last ~10 years but I have held back on AirPods as I've read a few reports from people whos AirPods have lasted ~18 months before the (non-replaceable, because Apple) battery begins to heavily degrade.
Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by reaperducer on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:39AM (#24777830)
non-replaceable, because Apple

Non-replaceable by you because the AirPods are so small.

But they can be replaced by Apple for $49. Or $0 if they're still covered under AppleCare.

Re:iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro by gnicholas on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @06:56PM (#24771262)
Plugging also charges faster than inductive charging, so when you 'need' to charge your phone you should prefer plugging direct.