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Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:58PM (#24523095)
For every one of the coming takes that Republicans will be hypocrites to appoint and confirm a justice (which they will)

They do not give a fuck.

That’s not how they see power and it is why they have a far disproportionate share of power/representation than their support across the electorate.

This is about power. In politics, nothing else matters.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by mhh__ on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:03PM (#24523148)
> They do not give a fuck

Something that the Democrats need to realize is that they (especially Obama) assumed too much good faith in the congressional GOP.

You can stick to your principles while doing it but, when you are against a party who now considers its last nominee (Romney) a radical BLM leftist, when they go low you need to be ready to kick them in the head.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:09PM (#24523202)
Precisely.

There is a desire, specifically and especially on the left, to get so caught up in their principles that people believe it is the primary source of change.

For example:

What should be the first acts and priorities be of a democratic administration?

Healthcare? Nope.

Climate change? Nope.

A federal holiday for election days? Yes.

Passing legislation mandating mail-in ballots? Yes.

That’s how you think about politics. About power. Lock in any advantage and expand it. Democrats have popular support for their policies but cannot for the life of them think strategically.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by mhh__ on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:15PM (#24523255)
Being embarrassed about wanting to be in power is a perpetual problem for leftism (It's understandable - it involves saying yes to the institutions you probably want to reform).

Consider Corbyn in the UK - Awful polling from day 1, doesn't help much with Brexit, loses 2 elections (One meh, one disaster) but the lessons learned is that they won the "argument" and it's all good?

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:42PM (#24523571)
To be fair, most American "left" politicians are hardly left, with the exception of Sanders and the handful of DSA-affiliated Congressmen. Although popular support for more-left policies seems to be forcing them (reluctantly) farther leftward.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nsajko on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:45PM (#24523597)
To be fair, it is hypothetically possible that Corbyn did the best he could have done, considering he was being terribly smeared, even vilified, by all the big media organizations in UK AFAIK.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by mhh__ on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:57PM (#24523721)
Field a candidate with a riposte then.

The Corbyn fans love to talk abut media smears but they neglect to mention that he never polled above 0% net approval in his entire term as leader.

Starmer, his replacement, is a man of intellect, principle, and service to the public - he is already doing better than Corbyn ever did - i.e. the media who didn't like Corbyn were writing amicable praise of Sir Keir (the mail love a nickname) even when he was making a mockery of their man (Boris)

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by flamble on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:09PM (#24523824)
The reason for that is that Starmer is a corporate stooge who doesn't present any threat to the merciless extraction of value from the working class. Of course they have no objection to the kind of competition which would have no adverse effect on their interests if it prevailed; their praise is evidence of Starner's complete lack of merit.

The media besmirched Corbyn BECAUSE he was a decent man with the interests of the public at heart, which is unacceptable to the owners of the media apparatus.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by toyg on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:36PM (#24524032)
> Starmer is a corporate stooge

Now, now. Starmer might not be a militant marxist, but he spent a good chunk of his life fighting for workers' rights in court. He also served faithfully in the shadow cabinet under Corbyn - are you saying that Corbyn chose a "corporate stooge" as his shadow minister, and on the hottest issue of the day at that (brexit)?

One of Corbyn's lackings was that he was unable to make friends in his own party, to the point that half of his own rank & file literally sabotaged him at the last election. By calling good people all sorts of unwarranted names we're only going to see a repeat, and $deity knows this country deserves better than yet another Tory government.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by flamble on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:05AM (#24525528)
The section of the rank and file that sabotaged him did so because they are possessed by a vile ideology that virulently opposes any concession by the powerful to the mass of the people. Being unable to befriend any of that metastatic species redounds greatly to Mr Corbyn's credit. They are not "good people".

Now Starmer may not be ideologically committed to the ruthless exploitation of the public like they are, but at the very least he harbours delusions about the possibility of compromising with a right wing, both within his party and in the media, that is implacably and rabidly opposed to any project of positive reform. They will never relent in their shameless calumny and perfidy until Labour's program has been completely neutered.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tasty_freeze on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:36PM (#24523499)
Gerrymandering is at the top of my list. Solve that problem and it is easier to attack the other problems.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:44PM (#24523588)
That would take a constitutional amendment.

The top three amendments (in my opinion) that the US needs most:

- ending gerrymandering

- taking money out of politics (federally financed elections)

- forcing votes on nominees within a certain time period, otherwise they are assumed confirmed

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:36PM (#24523503)
Democrats have popular support for their policies but cannot for the life of them think strategically.

You think they don't understand this stuff? Democrats have been deliberately "failing" to get shit done for 20 years. They keep holding out progressive and populist policies, tantalizingly close to enacting meaningful change -- but nope, somehow it always seems to be a matter of political strategy, badly run campaigns, and bad messaging that derails things.

Surely the Republicans haven't somehow had the better political strategists for decades. They aren't always better funded and they aren't always better organized. And certainly they don't have access to some kind of magic politics potion that the Democrats lack.

The only plausible scenario that I can see is that the Democratic party leadership has no interest in actually getting policy enacted, as long as they keep their cozy niche in power. Another 4 years of Trump will help them do very well in the 2022 midterms, and it will help keep their friends at the NYT, CNN, and MSNBC in business.

It would also explain why they hated Sanders and the DSA candidates so much. Liberals (not to mention leftists) who actually wanted to take power at the national level and actually do something? That would fuck up the whole game.

Basically you'd have to show me some actual evidence that Democratic party leadership actually wants to do anything other than campaign on a progressive platform and consistently almost-win. The whole thing seems worked to me.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by bscphil on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:55PM (#24523705)
I don't think you need anything that conspiratorial, it's not that centrist Democrats really don't want to get anything done, it's just that they really are basically okay with the current neoliberal consensus.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by shanhaiguan on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:37PM (#24524039)
What's the distinction?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by bscphil on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:34PM (#24524750)
Well, one is the claim that Democrats don't get anything done because they have a secret commitment to keep things the way they are so that voters have a reason to come back to the polls for them, and I'm saying maybe the reason is simply that Democrats are mostly fine with the way things are. Maybe your point is that this is a distinction without a difference, which I guess I'd mostly have to agree with.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by manquer on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:44AM (#24525437)
Doing those changes is also against their interest, making them as hypocritical as republicans when they talk policy.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Saturday September 19, 2020 @09:11AM (#24527187)
The difference is that it goes beyond being okay with a policy consensus. The current presidency is an exercise is dismantling the checks and balances in the US government and an experiment in pushing the limits of propaganda and keeping the public complacent in the face of crimes committed against them by their government.

For example, they had to have known that McConnell would kill the Trump impeachment. But they went ahead with it anyway. The only explanation I can see for this is that they wanted to somehow signal their opposition to Trump with their core voter base, while wasting and effectively discrediting the usefulness of a last-resort tool for asserting their authority.

And what is Biden campaigning on? What is his campaign even doing [0]? Where are the attack ads branding Trump as an anti-American grifter? This feels like 2016 all over again, except with the added danger that we already know how dangerous Trump is, and if he wins again he'll have nothing to lose -- and his handlers in the halls of power will take full advantage of it. They know they are ruining America and they simply don't care, they'll just run to the bunker when shit gets bad for normal people [1].

[0]: https://sirota.substack.com/p/where-is-bidens-ground-game

[1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2020/03/27/billionair...

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pm90 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:56PM (#24523716)
This kind of thinking assumes that the ruling party can unilaterally make policy changes, which is not possible in the American system currently (e.g. fillibuster).

w.r.t Sanders: he lost in a small d democratic primary. It wasn't the leadership: it was the voters that chose Biden over Sanders.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by wyldfire on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:16PM (#24523278)
Voting and gerrymandering are the metagame.

We should pay people to vote, that would help turnout (up to about as much as it would ever get).

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ransom1538 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:13PM (#24523849)
"We should pay people to vote"

Reminds of me of 3rd grade when kids would make a christmas tree out of their scantron tests. That is what we need -- randomness added to voting.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by worker767424 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:45PM (#24523602)
Controversial view: no, we shouldn't. Have you see how stupid people are? How easily they're manipulated? How little they understand about how government works? Any you want politicians pandering to these people?

If it weren't to the stigma of "literacy" tests and how the were historically used, I'd be fully in favor of "licensing" voters.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by papeda on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:06PM (#24523791)
Paying people to vote is pretty out there. I think we should at least put election day on a weekend. Spread it over both days, even. This feels to me like a relatively easy small step that would really help make voting easier in a way that doesn't open itself up to voter fraud arguments (as far as I know).
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by wyldfire on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:29PM (#24523974)
> Spread it over both days, even.

Early voting (in several states already?) does a good job of this IMO.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by malandrew on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:18PM (#24523883)
The literacy test that I took wasn't even controversial. Back in middle school my civics teacher actually had us take one of these literacy tests. While very few people in the class passed the test (I think just myself and one other person), anyone actually familiar with the text of the US Constitution should be able to pass it. Sadly almost no one in our class was familiar with the US Constitution.

I'm totally okay with a test where the only document you need to study from is the US Constitution.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by toastal on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:18PM (#24523305)
Having more people able to vote in winner-takes-all elections in gerrymandered districts won't help as much as you'd like.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by AlanSE on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:49PM (#24523636)
The whole electoral college is non-intentional gerrymandering. The candidate with fewer votes has been winning since 2000, and winning with a wider and wider vote margin. A major political goal should be getting the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact done.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by sanj on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:36PM (#24524031)
Obama won both elections in electoral votes and actual votes.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by AlanSE on Monday September 21, 2020 @09:45AM (#24543335)
Yes, and was very centrist.

I don't think the changing media landscape can be disentangled from this, which is a trend happening for unrelated reasons. If the only thing happening was urban concentration, then the mathematical predicted response of politicians would be that the liberal part becomes political-center and the conservative part skews further right.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by salawat on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:04PM (#24524585)
The Electoral College is specifically intended not to line up with the popular vote. It is the final chance for the conscience of the people of the United States, unfettered by anything, to weigh in on the merit of those the masses have chosen as candidates for the highest office. The Faithless Elector was a feature; not a bug.

Or at least it was until it was perverted by the two major National Conventions. As mentioned earlier, read the Federalist papers for more context; but be prepared for a let down when it starts to sink in how much care was put into the system just for things to go off the rails, and I don't mean because of things like suffrage or the Civil Rights Movement either; but by the slow degeneration of the integrity of the system through the death by 1000 cuts of self-centered legislation, dismantling and delegation of Legislative authority to the executive, excessive politicization of the Judiciary, non-mandating of sunset dates for legislation, and the cancerous taint that is the lack of House or Senate limits on consecutive terms.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by AlanSE on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:07AM (#24524950)
To me, the most relevant difference between then and now is the looseness of the union. It makes sense that all states get an equal vote... only when the votes don't really matter. If California broke up into 5 states, they would get 5x the power by the holy virtue of making that administrative decision.

An alliance of states can make sense. Everyone at the table knows they're not equal, because they're representing totally different entities. However, they all have a voice because they all have decision power. In an alliance, votes don't make sense as a decision-making apparatus with power. The gathering is for the purpose of international diplomacy, and freedom of action is determined by the real capabilities of each sovereign.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by salawat on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:31PM (#24529085)
>To me, the most relevant difference between then and now is the looseness of the union.

To me, it is the terrifying ease with which instantaneous information/sentiment propagation can be utilized to sever one from a rational ground state and whip up a furor with which to push through an carve up of the Nation's civil liberties that truly sets us apart now.

Even reading literature from the time, it factors heavily in that to prevent misbehavior and oppression by a majority, there must be a realistic point of view taken as to the weakness of such a large mass to chaos and lack of coordination to operate in concert. This is a point that I don't think many truly appreciate that the Founder's understood and accounted for. To them, the majority was not always right. In fact, it would be accurate to state that the structure of government they settled on was designed to effectively serve the purposes for which it was intended, and no more; so great was the risk represented by such an edifice. The amount of Liberty preserved so great, and the sacrifice of civil freedoms was meant to be as minimal as possible, leads me to believe they saw legislation as more of a failure state than as a desirable State of affairs. At least in as much as said legislation did not tend to reinforce and preserve the Unity of the Nation as a whole.

>If California broke up into 5 states, they would get 5x the power by the holy virtue of making that administrative decision.

That is dead on point. By the way, Federalist Papers 6-10 touch on the ills of factionalism, and the delicate balance that must be struck between the number of representatives, and the population they represent. It was a conscious decision at the time to try to satisfy suffrage in order to safeguard the liberties of the Nation as a whole.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:46PM (#24523608)
I am under no delusions about what I mentioned as panaceas.

But in terms of direct action that democrats could pass in the first week (the bills exist already), those are my picks.

Gerrymandering would take a constitutional amendment. Yes, it would help more, but that’s a moot point if the people we’re talking about can’t do it.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by toastal on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:32PM (#24524388)
Sure. I was pointing out that there's up-and-down fundamental issues with the American voting system that would take a massive reform to fix as mere tweaks alone won't suffice. I think we'd agree on this.
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Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:43PM (#24523577)
On the flipside, if Democrats didn't think they had a solid voter base in immigrants, they wouldn't give a shit about immigrants.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by User23 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:46PM (#24523613)
That Democrats identified the Republican inability or unwillingness to either woo or eliminate the new voters only further argues in favor of their strategic acumen.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:38PM (#24523530)
Until Trump does something zany and unexpected like abolishing ICE next month, and suddenly they all flip red.

Edit: That said, I could think of much worse outcomes.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ghufran_syed on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:24PM (#24523366)
Democrat senators Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid first introduced a filibuster for judicial nominees, and then ending the filibuster for judicial nominees when it was politically convenient for them.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/mitch-mcconn...

Do you think that might have affected the ability of the current president to successfully appoint a supreme court justice now?

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by glenstein on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:51PM (#24523662)
There are so many unpacked assumptions and unevaluated arguments here it would take a book to work through them all.

To give a short version - if you oppose a filibuster, then don't use it to prevent Merrick Garland from being on the court.

Nothing about Schumer's position on the filibuster in 2002 can be used to argue that the trajectory of court appointments since then is a culmination of any logically consistent argument in response to it.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pbourke on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:59PM (#24523740)
> Democrat senators Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid ...

*Democratic

Chuck Shumer, a Democrat, is a member of the Democratic Party.

When used as an adjective the correct usage is “Democratic”

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by chkaloon on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:07PM (#24523807)
The useful thing about seeing 'Democrat' in a comment is that it is immediately obvious which way their bias leans.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by arp242 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:59PM (#24524195)
What's wrong with "democratic" and why would it tell someone's political leanings? Isn't it just a different way to say "democratic"?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by chkaloon on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:07PM (#24524232)
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nostromo on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:13PM (#24523851)
In this case I don't see why it needs to be an adjective.

By analogy, you'll more often hear "Texas senator Mr Bean" (using the singular noun) vs "Texan senator Mr Bean" (using the adjective).

In any case, it's not something anyone should get worked up over.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by evan_ on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:37PM (#24524417)
Let's ask Google.

  "democratic senators"
  > About 969,000 results (0.52 seconds)

  "democrat senators"
  > About 92,800 results (0.42 seconds)
Bonus:

  "democratic senators" site:breitbart.com
  > About 1,010 results (0.32 seconds)

  "democrat senators" site:breitbart.com
  > About 2,300 results (0.27 seconds)
Conclusion: "democratic" is significantly more common outside of right-wing propaganda.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by jumelles on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:21PM (#24523910)
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nostromo on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:28PM (#24523964)
I'm well aware... but in this particular sentence he or she is talking about specific Democrat, not the Democratic Party, and as such, seems grammatical.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by JohnTHaller on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:44PM (#24524095)
"Democrat" is a Trump-speak signifier and chosen on purpose.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by evan_ on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:39PM (#24523545)
Do you think the republicans would not have ended it for Kavanaugh?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by cmurf on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:15PM (#24523859)
They did. Reid's cloture vote to end the filibuster applied to federal judges, not Supreme Court justices. Before the vote on Kavanaugh there was a cloture vote to end the filibuster.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by evan_ on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:51PM (#24524503)
Oh well if he hasn’t done that surely the republicans would’ve sat on their hands this whole time
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by gilrain on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:37PM (#24523527)
> Democrat

Childish. Come on.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by zanny on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:24PM (#24523367)
Obama didn't assume anything. He was a senator for 12 years (federally for 4) and had plenty of experience by that point to know how partisan legislative bodies are and how members will die for their parties perceived glory. I don't believe for a second that in the aftermath of Clinton's impeachment & Gore's 500 vote loss in the state being governed by his opponents brother with tens of thousands of votes lost or miscounted that any prospective politician anywhere in the US would expect good faith from their opposition.

He was a great orator and liked using that come together message as an attempted bait to push popular support in his favor, though. It was also a great excuse for pushing an extremely conservative healthcare bill through congress as if it were some major achievement for his more progressive supporters.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:50PM (#24523647)
I agree on Obama. Biden played a large part as well.

Remember that they got rid of a public option in negotiations to win Republicans over. And got zero Republican votes.

Obama was many things, but he was not good at congressional politics. He saw himself as about the fray, and it showed.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by chris11 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:12PM (#24523838)
Joe Lieberman killed the public option in Obamacare. He threatened to vote against the bill if a public option was included.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by StanislavPetrov on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:44PM (#24524092)
You mean Joe Lieberman, who was Al Gore's choice for Vice President when he won the Democratic nomination for president in 2000, and went on to endorse Republican John McCain for president only 8 years later?

The facts are that Democratic Senator Max Baucus, Chairmen of the Senate Finance Committee and Obama's pointman in the Senate who was responsible for writing the language of Obamacare (Romneycare) invited a cabal of insurance industry lobbyists into the negotiating room to write the bill and specifically excluded all single-payer advocates from the negotiating table. Its pure revisionist history to suggest that Obama and his minions did everything they could to push a public option (let alone single-payer or even a Medicare-for-all type provision). The facts are that Obama and the Democratic leadership caucus were determined to pass a bill that enshrined the predominance of the for-profit, employer-based health insurance industry. Obamacare (Romneycare) was designed from the beginning as an effort to preclude real, substantive change and improvements to our healthcare system by implementing some very minor improvements (such as the pre-existing conditions clause) and some cosmetic changes. This was abundantly clear to everyone who was paying close attention at the time and not getting their information from corporate news outlets.

https://pnhp.org/news/max-baucus-should-not-be-deciding-heal...

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by anm89 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:24PM (#24523936)
Or maybe present a better alternative that gets people to vote for your side?

Your party aggressively screwed over a candidate who could have energized the base and still would have captured 99.99% of the center in a trade for a principle-less barely coherent snooze fest of a human being who would toe the old party line and then you claim the only remedy is to play as dirty as the other side?

Excuse me for not buying it.

I voted for Obama but the democratic party is bordering on as repulsive as the republicans these days and this type of thinking is to blame.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by mhh__ on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:16PM (#24524668)
Bernie? He lost to Hillary by almost 4 million votes, then lost to Biden by 9 million votes (The largest margin since 2004) - how is that motivating the base.

He's a protectionist idealist who the republicans were dying to run against because they knew he'd be easier than Biden.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by anm89 on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:47PM (#24524824)
I'm not a Bernie supporter. Just pointing out that the party repeatedly screws itself over.

Also just because a person loses a primary does not mean they are they weaker candidate in the general election. The math can easily go the other way.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by DuskStar on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:37PM (#24524411)
At the same time, from the Republican perspective... They won "fair and square", and then largely liberal-staffed agencies and other organizations delayed and resisted the implementation of Republican policies as much as possible. The other side wasn't playing fair, why should they?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colordrops on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:38PM (#24523531)
This idea that either the Republicans or Democrats have faith or principles is absurd. The Democratic brand is one of principles and altruism, but their actions do not reflect this.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:40PM (#24523554)
Wrong. Democrats are principled to a fault.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by malandrew on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:23PM (#24523931)
The only people I've seen principled is Justin Amash, Rand Paul, Ron Paul and Ben Sasse. Beyond those few, everyone else is pretty much playing power games.

Very very few people in Congress do anything but vote along party lines on pretty much everything.

I don't know how you can democrats are principled to a fault with a straight face when you have Nancy Pelosi who is just the Democrat's McConnell.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:33PM (#24524006)
Lmao at thinking anyone who names their kid after Ayn rand could be principled. All the libertarians in congress are fine with raising the deficit when the republicans are in power but cry about fiscal responsibility when democrats are. The democratic party is the party of fiscal responsibility.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by malandrew on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:40PM (#24524065)
Rand is short for Randal. He was not named after Ayn Rand.

His full name is Randal Howard Paul.

Also, which libertarians have been fine raising the deficit? They are pretty much the only ones that consistently argue against it whether the budget increase comes from Republicans or Democrats.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:44PM (#24524097)
Lmao at actually believing Randal paul isn't named after Ayn Rand. I see you've fully embraced the cognitive dissonance that has made republicans so successful. I hope democrats can do the same. I'll give credit to Ron though. That was a very principled thing to do, respect.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by malandrew on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:48PM (#24524125)
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by nerdponx on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:44PM (#24523587)
It's getting hard not to believe that it's mostly a front.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by mhh__ on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:19PM (#24523890)
In what way?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by refurb on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:22PM (#24523926)
Oh, the old "the reason my party can't get anything done is because they are too principled".
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:38PM (#24524050)
Everything is relative. Obviously politicians aren't principled in an absolute way. But democrats absolutely are more principled than republicans. They have failed to lie like republicans do. They don't gerrymander as effectively. They refuse to utilize fake news to energize their base like republicans do.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colordrops on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:17AM (#24525005)
They did all of that during the primary against Bernie Sanders. They went so far as to call him a Russian plant. And the rigging of the Iowa caucus result reporting was unconscionable. They only reported districts that Sanders was not leading in, making it look like he lost. It took a week to report results districts he was popular in and he ended up winning the popular vote.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nDO2kHGEoY0

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:52PM (#24529230)
This is literally republican propaganda. Hillary won the primary by 3.7 million votes.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colordrops on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:14PM (#24529757)
I'm talking about the 2019 primaries. Watch the link instead of being reactionary and commenting from your gut.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:04AM (#24532189)
He lost the 2019 primaries even worse. Minorities see class reductionist for what is is, racism from privileged middle class whites. It's clear that Bernie doesn't give a fuck about black people and they killed him for it.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pnw_hazor on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:16AM (#24525560)
Rachel Maddow is the queen of the fake news. Come on Man!
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ALittleLight on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:19PM (#24523318)
I don't know about head kicks. I think you just need to be a political realist. The reality is that you need (edit: cooperation of the) Senate and Presidency to get a Justice nominated. Obama didn't have the Senate and didn't get his pick for Justice. Trump does, and will get his pick.

The whole "Republicans are hypocrites" thing is true - but obviously so. Whatever was said about not doing it in election year was simply a political lie they felt they had to say to avoid the "We are doing this because we can" reality.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by gdubs on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:33PM (#24523467)
Kennedy, Souter, and Thomas were all approved by a senate of an opposing party. Apparently you have to go back to the 1800s though to find a case where a Democratic president had a nominee appointed by a Republican Senate.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ALittleLight on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:37PM (#24523516)
You have to have the cooperation of the Senate I meant. Obviously, in cases where a President of one party has a nominee appointed by a Senate of another, the cooperation of the Senate was there.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by 8note on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:27PM (#24523962)
Looking earlier than the 60s or so seems irrelevant for comparing the republicans and democrats
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by cmurf on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:22PM (#24523923)
Merrick Garland was recommended to Obama by Republican senator Orrin Hatch as a reasonable candidate, before the death of Scalia.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ncallaway on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:15PM (#24523262)
Then it's time to fight back.

Make it absolutely clear to McConnell and Democratic leaders in the Senate that if McConnell fills this seat in an election year, then the Democrats must increase the size of the SCOTUS.

McConnell needs to fear the reprisal more than he fears the delay. Because you're right, this is about power. Nothing else matters to them. So make them fear this.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tmountain on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:36PM (#24523506)
You can expand the number of seats on the Supreme Court via a bill passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president. So we'd need the presidency, a majority in the House, and a supermajority in the Senate to invoke cloture to end the inevitable legislative filibuster from the Republicans. So even with a blue wave in November, that's not possible because it is extraordinarily unlikely that we gain a supermajority in the Senate.

The only other option to pass such a bill in the Senate would be to gain a Senate majority and use that Senate majority to end the legislative filibuster, which is the last filibuster anyways. With the filibuster out of the way, we'd just need the presidency and majorities in both houses of Congress.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ncallaway on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:39PM (#24523538)
> The only other option to pass such a bill in the Senate would be to gain a Senate majority and use that Senate majority to end the legislative filibuster, which is the last filibuster anyways.

This is what I call for in another comment. There's no way to get a supermajority in the Senate, so the legislative filibuster would have to die.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by liquidise on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:49PM (#24523637)
Who is "we" in this comment? Democrats? Not Republicans? Progressives?

While your comment is both technically and strategically correct, this sort of binary "us vs them" mentality has caused america such harm and always strikes me as somewhat reductionist. I wish more focus would be on policies and individuals instead of D vs R (as if greens, libertarians, socialists, etc simply do not exist in america's 300M+). Perhaps i am just romanticizing an impossible future, though.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ncallaway on Saturday September 19, 2020 @10:48AM (#24527771)
I strongly agree with your desires, but I've also been sucked into the D vs R world lately. While I've always been politically left, I despise the 2 party system.

I'm of the opinion that a first past the post and winner take all voting system will almost always produce a 2 party outcome. As such, until we change the voting system I've decided to stop considering myself independent and throw in with the party most closely aligned with my views.

I don't think your imagined future is impossible, though! I just think it's heavily discouraged by our voting system. We can change our voting systems, though. I'd really strongly encourage you to check out and support Ranked Choice Voting (or other proposed voting systems). I don't think it's a silver bullet, but I think RCV would go a long way to breaking down the 2 party system

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by goodluckchuck on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:02PM (#24523767)
I think I’ve seen that movie before; Gaining control of two branches and then using that power to cement absolute control by seizing the third is what the bad guys do.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by kenjackson on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:39PM (#24523541)
But then get rid of the legislature filibuster after they've used it. The Senate will probably tend GOP, so make sure it is weaker.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pm90 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:59PM (#24523744)
Not if you give statehood to DC (and PR if they vote for it).
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by redler on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:29PM (#24523975)
This might pass the senate — so long as we add two more Dakotas at the same time.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pm90 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:11AM (#24525291)
No
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ghufran_syed on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:27PM (#24523396)
So why wouldn’t the Republicans do the same thing next time they win an election? Or would the Democrats somehow guarantee that never happens again?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ncallaway on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:37PM (#24523517)
They will. The SCOTUS as a nonpartisan institution that isn't a political football is 100% dead if McConnell confirms a nominee before the election.

It's time Democrats recognize that, and play offense when they have the ball.

It's sad to see the institution end as a non-political body, but it's been happening for the last couple of decades. This will be the absolute end of it.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by gorbachev15 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:57PM (#24523723)
SCOTUS is already clearly partisan if the newly departed justice's final wish is for a different president to appoint her replacement. Playing politics up until the end.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by papeda on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:08PM (#24523816)
Ah yes, wishing for a successor that does not undo your life's work is definitely what I would call "playing politics up until the end".
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by malandrew on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:29PM (#24523969)
Genuine question for anyone following Supreme Court decisions since the inclusion of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. How have either of those two nominations contributed to decisions in a way that undes RBG's life work? If they haven't, on what basis are you coming to the conclusion that the third nominee to SCOTUS would somehow be radically different than the first two?

I personally haven't read an opinion from either that most democrats would be disappointed with. Most people actually don't follow what the supreme court does and the extent of the attention they pay is just making sure that the president they support gets to pick SCOTUS justices.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by papeda on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:37PM (#24524764)
We can compare the stated philosophies of RBG against those of the two most recent nominees and the shortlisted candidates put forth in the past week and see that they're very different. It seems very plausible to guess that, given a large majority, these people will enact these philosophies. No?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by refurb on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:24PM (#24523939)
Damn right it is. Once she passes the President and Senate get to nominate a replacement. RBG isn't somehow deserving of a candidate that maintains her legacy. In fact, she has zero say in who her replacement is.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by millstone on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:32PM (#24523997)
The current status quo is that SCOTUS is staffed based on who happens to die and who happens to be President at that time. That's a terrible design: Roe v. Wade should not hang on whether there was an economic recession two years ago.

So if there's a court-packing arms race, that may not be a bad thing. It would bring this anachronism to a head.

Maybe we have LOTS MORE justices. Then each appointment would not be so politicized because their influence would be lessened. See https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/12/academic-highlight-epps-a...

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by SpicyLemonZest on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:32PM (#24523456)
If the Supreme Court becomes a more partisan institution that shifts in viewpoints every 4 years, that's not ideal, but I think it's quite a bit better than the status quo where so many people see every appointment as an existential threat.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by hapless on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:39PM (#24524773)
Nothing. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

One party coalition has demonstrated they will do ANYTHING for power, and now there are very few good choices available.

Either respond in kind, or face permanent defeat

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by colinmhayes on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:41PM (#24523559)
SCOTUS is dead
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by dmode on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:22PM (#24523914)
There are ways to do it. Expand the court and then pass a legislation banning court expansions without supermajority
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by redler on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:33PM (#24524007)
If Democrats gain power, nothing changes unless they frame their opportunity as "what would Mitch do?"
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by wyldfire on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:19PM (#24523313)
There's no reprisal that would intimidate him into not taking every opportunity to claim more power.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by selimthegrim on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:55PM (#24523700)
You want to split McConnell and Trump starting now. McConnell will throw Trump under the bus the moment he loses and has done the nomination. If Trump holds out he can bargain with the Democrats during the lame duck session on immunity.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by wyldfire on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:30PM (#24523987)
Trump will leverage his lame duck session to contest the loss in the courts.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:18PM (#24523296)
I can’t see Dems doing that. They don’t have the popular support for something like that, let alone the courage.

What they should do is physically barricade the Capitol. I’m not really joking. It will come to that.

My first guess of the most action they will take:

Staging a walk-out of the vote.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by anonAndOn on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:30PM (#24523435)
I think we're about to see some of the more arcane rules of debate in the Senate take center stage: repeated quorum calls, filibuster, cloture, etc. I suspect this will not go down without a fight.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:35PM (#24523490)
Filibuster was abolished for SCOTUS nominations.

There was nothing procedurally that Democrats could have done to stop Kavanaugh. If there were, they would have.

They cannot stop this nomination by traditional means.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by stevehawk on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:42PM (#24523572)
A walkout? That wouldn't do anything. There's 53 sitting Republicans. That's enough to confirm a nomination.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by sjg007 on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:28PM (#24523408)
They will.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tick_tock_tick on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:34PM (#24523477)
They don't have the support there own party will turn on.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by goodluckchuck on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:59PM (#24523734)
Uhhh, the Senate confirms nominees. Expanding the court would just allow Republicans to name more justices...
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ncallaway on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:09PM (#24524240)
The Democrats would not be able to expand the size of the court until they could pass legislation.

This threat assumes that Democrats would take this action once they control the House and Senate.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by jamiequint on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:18PM (#24523293)
Hillary won the popular vote by 1.1% and currently the Republicans hold a razor thin Senate majority and have been substantially outpaced by Democrats in the House, so I'm not really sure where you get the idea that there's a "far disproportionate share of power/representation". It seems pretty proportionate to me.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:33PM (#24523475)
You look at the core beliefs of the Republican Party:

Anti-Abortion: about or above sixty percent of Americans support legal abortions

Climate change: two thirds of Americans view it as a top priority and that the benefits of action outweigh the costs

Guns: sixty percent to two-thirds of Americans support stricter gun control. 90–92% support mandatory background checks

Taxing Wealthy: again, sixty percent to two thirds support higher taxes on the wealthy.

Those are the pillars. Those are the core propositions.

Americans do not support them or not by a margin of 1.1%

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by edbob on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:53PM (#24523677)
Polls are notoriously unreliable and easy to manipulate. "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". I'm not even saying that you're wrong -- I'm saying that we have no way to know whether you're correct or not based on the numbers you threw out. We would need some good sources to even begin to evaluate the truth of these assertions.

The assertions themselves are so unbelievably vague that they could easily go either way with cherry-picked polling. Most people support abortion in cases of rape, so if you do a poll asking if people think some abortion should be legal, you will easily get a majority. If you ask about easy access to abortion in the 9th month, you get far lower levels of support. Saying "most support legal abortions" is practically meaningless without specifying what type of abortion they support.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by chub500 on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:55PM (#24524870)
I know many people who vote Republican only because of abortion. The fact is that pro-life people see this as the greatest injustice of our society by a wide margin. The left is motivated by BLM and the right is by pro-life.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by zepto on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:56PM (#24523719)
The first two are accurate because they are relatively clear.

The other two depend very much on how you ask the question. It’s nowhere near as simple as you make out.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by taurath on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:54PM (#24523690)
If people voted for any of those things, there would be quite a different margin. So then, what DO people vote for?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by 8note on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:45PM (#24524110)
Is it relevant what people do vote for?

Getting the most votes isn't what translates to forming a government in the US. The big things are: having your family members run state governments, setting district lines, and setting up laws to prevent people that disagree with you from voting. Not to mention just having a lot of money to bribe already elected politicians.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by taurath on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:53PM (#24524156)
As an absolute leftist, I think you're overstating the effects of gerrymandering. State gerrymandering cannot win statewide seats, nor the electoral college.

Anti-voting regulations, while frankly absolutely despicable, I've not yet seen any studies regarding a significant effect. Do you have any data on that?

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pm90 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:02PM (#24523765)
People do vote for these things, but if you split voters is a particular way you can ensure that the minority hold on to power (Gerrymandering and the Electoral College).
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by taurath on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:50PM (#24524136)
If you're looking at a 60/40 split though, even the extreme levels of gerrymandering can't override it. So what are the other things that people vote for - they must have a large rightward split if people keep voting right wing, in the face of all those left-leaning polls on policies.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by pm90 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:10AM (#24525289)
That’s not how elections work in the US, 60/40 is not a big enough divide to undo a gerrymander. The majority of the liberal population lives in dense urban areas and thus their votes get “wasted” as they’re reliably Democrats, while sparser regions which consist of the minority view get more representation compared to their actual numbers.

Add to that the fact that many voters are single issue voters, so their opinions on different policies don’t end up amounting to much.

So even if some policies are popular overall, they need to be popular enough to overcome these things to form a durable coalition that advocates for them in the halls of power.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by refurb on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:27PM (#24523959)
Did you just make those numbers up out of thin air?
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by zanny on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:31PM (#24523446)
Proportionality isn't one to one because half of Americans aren't republican and half aren't democrat. The problem is that polling data is absolutely awful at showing absolute support for the individual parties platforms and membership numbers are largely biased compared to what the electorate actually wants, but there are plenty of articles about GOP tactics to hold power from a minority bloc position.[1]

I wish I bookmarked the statistics on this because they were eye opening to me, but 2016 polls were showing about 40% democrat to 35% republican leaning in the country. So if the public at large is 5% more blue than red, but Republicans hold near-even seats in government, thats a bias in their favor. And as this and many other articles show this isn't the product of random swings of popular support but structurally orchestrated power grabs meant to keep a minority party in power.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/12/gop-man...

Edit: And to be fair the Senate isn't a democratic institution whatsoever to begin with. Its going to naturally lean red because there are many states with low urbanization and population that produce permanent seat Republican senators. Because the distribution of states has nothing to do with the distribution of people that lends the senate to be hugely incongruent with the actual ideological makeup of the populace at large.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by basementcat on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:26PM (#24523386)
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by ekianjo on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:54PM (#24524520)
> disproportionate share of power/representation than their support across the electorate.

Both the democratic party and the republican party only represent a small fraction of the electorate, for your information.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/25/american-pol...

"As they go to the polls in a historic presidential election, more than six in 10 Americans say neither major political party represents their views any longer, a survey has found."

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by lliamander on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:07PM (#24523804)
Do not make the mistake of thinking the politicians who represent you are particularly principled people.

The left has been talking about stacking the supreme court since Kavanaugh. Democratic senators played games with the filibuster. There are plenty of other examples of weaponizing politics that I could cite (from both sides).

I would like to see Senate Republicans show some fair play and wait for after the election, though there is some wisdom in wanting to avoid the possibility of a split decision should this election go to the supreme court.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by couchand on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:36PM (#24524028)
Seems highly unlikely that John Roberts would let any decision on the election be that close. He's too much of an institutionalist to not find some way to bring along most, if not all, of the Justices. Given that, it's really quite preferable that the seat go unfilled, eliminating the possibility of a 5-4 decision with Roberts writing the dissent, a situation that really would spell doom for American democracy.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by lliamander on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:43PM (#24524087)
I think that's pretty reasonable.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by athms on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:05PM (#24524218)
>The left has been talking about stacking the supreme court since Kavanaugh.

Considering the court has had a Republican majority since 1989, I don't blame them.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by lliamander on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:29AM (#24525382)
You don't think making the court an explicitly partisan institution by just stacking it whenever you are in power is going to be a bad idea? You don't think it will destroy the collegial attitude of the court that allowed Ginsburg and Scalia to be friends? You don't think Republicans will just do the same thing in response?

Judging by the wikipedia page on judicial leanings[1], Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Gorusch are all fairly moderate, whereas Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor are (relatively) more ideological. Only Alito and Thomas are particularly conservative.

And it's not like rulings have always been one-sided. I know plenty of conservatives have their gripes with Roberts.

Democratic appointees even held all nine seats during the 40's, and Republicans didn't stack the court.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_leanings_of_United...

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by athms on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:17PM (#24573863)
Stacking is a bad idea, but the GOP would do it if they controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House. The GOP of the 1940s is not the GOP today. That political party is gone off the rails. The last time they were fiscally responsible, Eisenhower was in the White House.

The Supreme Court does need to be expanded though. It hears half the cases it did fifty years ago. While they are at it, split the Ninth Circuit. Give California its own circuit since the majority cases originate from that state.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by martythemaniak on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:16PM (#24523269)
They will 100% fill that seat before Jan 20th. The outcome of the election does not matter. Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't understand McConnell and the gang. They'll let Romney dissent, it'll be the impeachment vote v2.

I saw some interviews with her, pretty amazing lady. Sad to see her go.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tyre on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:21PM (#24523334)
Yes, she a wonderful human and a brilliant thinker and writer. He take on Roe is nuanced and thoughtful and no bullshit (she doesn’t love it.)

I’m curious if they wait until after the election. Dangle it in front of their base as “we have to save this seat”.

Or maybe it’s actually a dis-incentive for republican turnout because RBG dying was a strong selling point for next term.

It will be interesting for sure.

EDIT:

I take that back. They will confirm before Election Day. They need a fifth judge for Trump to contest the election.

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by 1024core on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:34PM (#24524015)
> They do not give a fuck.

Why would they? There are no consequences to bad behavior!

Republicans push tax cuts through for the wealthy, leaving the country deeper in debt. So what do Democrats do when they get back in power? Let those cuts stand!

Imagine, if, for every Republican shenanigan, their price to pay would be much higher than any potential gains. They would think twice about being assholes then. But as things stand, they suffer no consequences! So why would they ever change??

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by tick_tock_tick on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:32PM (#24523465)
That is revisionist history at best Harry Reid (D) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid changed the rules and Congress have been fucked ever since.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by refurb on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:31PM (#24523991)
Why is this downvoted? Harry Reid literally eliminated the ability of the minority party to filibuster a presidential nominee.[1]

So the Democrats are basically complaining that they can't stop a Trump nomination, but only because they changed the rules themselves.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/21/harry-reid-sen...

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by evan_ on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:14PM (#24524651)
You can’t possibly argue in good faith that the republicans would not have changed it anyway.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by manquer on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:57AM (#24525491)
Perhaps not, however democrats should not complain when they set precedent knowing full well they will end up regretting it later.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by refurb on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:05PM (#24528854)
OF course not. It's just ironic the Democrats themselves eliminated a rule that could have helped them now.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by evan_ on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:27PM (#24529049)
It would not have helped them now because it would be gone
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by glial on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:23PM (#24523927)
Legitimacy matters.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by kenjackson on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:37PM (#24523525)
Democrats need to be ready to use the Nuclear Option. It's still on the table. They should have someone right now getting in shape for it.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by Kranar on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:53PM (#24523681)
Can you explain what you mean? The nuclear option [1] is used by the majority party in the Senate to end a filibuster by the minority party. Democrats are the minority party in the Senate and hence have no such option available to them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by vkou on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:47PM (#24524122)
The nuclear option is that the next time they win an election, they add 9 more supreme court seats.
Re:Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died by Igelau on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:15PM (#24523264)
> This is about power. In politics, nothing else matters.

Sounds about right.

> the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.