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Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by sneak on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:54PM (#24202709)
I mean, this is really a condemnation of any data privacy practices whatsoever claimed by any company, as they may at any point in the future sell the entire company and databases with it.

The only privacy claims one may wish to take seriously are those that occur simultaneously with promises never to sell the company.

I used to use a location tracking app called Moves, which was a neat 24/7 location tracking lifelogging tool. Facebook, the very last people I would like to have that data, bought them, and presumably integrated it into my shadow profile.

Special thanks go to to the founders of Moves: Zsolt Szász, Jukka Partanen, Juho Pennanen, Aapo Kyrölä, and Aleksi Aaltonen. Hope you got paid selling private data that belongs to the users that entrusted it to you.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by ragnese on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:50PM (#24204772)
And, in my opinion, that is exactly the position you SHOULD take. Stop giving up your data to any company. Even if your favorite company is nice now, they'll get hacked, they'll get sold, the CEO will get replaced, etc. There is no cloud, just someone else's computer.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by jacquesm on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:26PM (#24203185)
> I mean, this is really a condemnation of any data privacy practices whatsoever claimed by any company, as they may at any point in the future sell the entire company and databases with it.

Yes! That's why you should be very very careful who you give your data because you are exactly one acquisition away from the same effect as a breach. Fortunately the GDPR affords some protection here, if the data was collected for one purpose it can not suddenly be used for another.

As for never selling the company: there is one other option: you could give users the option to destroy their data just prior to the transfer. Of course no acquirer would be interested but that is another way of dealing with it.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by sn on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:59PM (#24206104)
I put in our privacy policy that customers will be notified if majority ownership changes, but had not considered advance notification of the ownership change.

Such a clause might work as long as it's part of the sale contract to adjust the sale price if any customers take that option.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by hapless on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:38PM (#24203342)
Good luck enforcing GDPR against any of the malign actors you should most wish to enforce GDPR against
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by jacquesm on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:53PM (#24203530)
Facebook and everything associated with it is doing everything they can to be and remain GDPR compliant.

Facebook has already been fined under the GDPR so it looks like that enforcement is working.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by wizzwizz4 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:06PM (#24203703)
… What? No, they aren't. https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ Clearly less than "everything they can".
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by jacquesm on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:31PM (#24204592)
Did he complain to the local DPA?

If not that's an excellent example and it may lead to FB being held to account.

DPA's typically do not go on fishing expeditions, you have to alert them.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by d3nj4l on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:38PM (#24206624)
I Googled around, and I cannot find any significant fines Facebook has faced for violating GDPR. The enforcement tracker you yourself linked (https://www.enforcementtracker.com/) only has one irrelevant entry for Facebook, and this feed (http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/NewsBreaks/GDPR-2020-Where-C...) which was last updated just this August says litigation is pending.

If you have any sources for this fine, please post them.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by d3nj4l on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:47PM (#24206669)
I split my comment into two parts, since this one is more my personal opinion, and I don't want it to colour an otherwise straightforward request for sources.

From noyb's fight against Facebook (https://noyb.eu/en/open-letter), to me it is very clear that Facebook does not intend to comply with GDPR. They are actively trying to find loopholes, and according to noyd, also working with the Irish DPO to find and exploit loopholes. It is also worth noting that the total fines Google has faced from GDPR enforcement come to just under EUR 58 Mn (http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/NewsBreaks/GDPR-2020-Where-C...). 58 Mn is chump change compared to Google's total revenue, and unless the threat of the full 4% turnover fine becomes credible, I doubt it will lead to any better action.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by MereInterest on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:58PM (#24204266)
Wait, wait, wait a minute. In the same comment, you are claiming that Facebook is GDPR compliant, and that Facebook was fined for violating the GDPR. It sure seems like there is a major contradiction between those two.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by jacquesm on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:26PM (#24204545)
Errm. No. In the same comment I am claiming that Facebook has already received a warning fine and that thus they stand to lose a lot if they are found to be in violation. I am not saying they are GDPR compliant because I can not know that with 100% certainty, but I'm sure they are doing what they can to not cross that line knowingly.

Facebook, Google, Apple & Microsoft are arguably the companies that stand the most to lose from GDPR enforcement, you can bet that they are well aware of this.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by smolder on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @09:38AM (#24210216)
They're trying to stay fine free while also violating the spirit of GDPR as much as possible, since their business hinges on irresponsible and invasive data gathering.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by Nextgrid on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:32PM (#24204003)
Facebook is not GDPR compliant at all. The only reason they appear to be is that there is no enforcement of this regulation so nobody is actually looking at what they're doing.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by jacquesm on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:29PM (#24204576)
There is plenty of enforcement of this regulation:

https://www.enforcementtracker.com/

Facebook has already been fined, and if they cross the line again they will be fined again, and quite possibly much higher.

If you know for a fact that Facebook is in some way or other currently not GDPR compliant then I would invite you to contact your local DPA.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by d3nj4l on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:35PM (#24206606)
There's no mention of any enforcement against Facebook on that website, except for one by the German DPC of EUR 51,000 for failing to notify them about their DPO.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by a1369209993 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:21PM (#24205882)
> any data privacy practices whatsoever

Nitpick: Rather, it's a condemnation of any data privacy claims; a data privacy practice is a technical measure that (by design if not in reality) makes it literally impossible for the attacker to collect private information in the first place. Nothing else actually provides security in practice.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by entropicdrifter on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:01PM (#24203640)
The only truly private data practice is not keeping any.

The only winning move is not to play

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by sixdimensional on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @10:27AM (#24210690)
I want to agree with you, really.. but the realistic person in me says that it is likely that if you don’t keep the data, someone else will find a way, because getting the data seems to be irresistible as a form of control and advantage.

So maybe not playing doesn’t really work.

I was thinking, in regards to some grandparent way up there, the same statement “don’t play” might have been true for Oculus in general.

What I mean to say is, don’t sell the company, ever. Then you can “control the outcome”.

Ah, but there lies another fallacy. You really can’t control the outcome even if you try to. Even if you don’t play, likely someone who wants to do the same thing as you, and exploit it, will find a way. Or maybe on their own, Oculus would have never found the right supporter who would honor privacy. Even if they had.. the below could happen.

For example, if Facebook hadn’t bought Oculus, maybe they would have bought the Vive product line from HTC (a bit far fetched) and compete against Oculus.. and then done the same privacy intruding measures.

So even if Oculus had held out and didn’t “play”, they might have been crushed anyway or the privacy problem could have just happened somewhere else.

I’m not saying we should give up trying to protect privacy and “play” the game... but that somehow in the competitive environment we are in, those playing the game are winning more over those who wish not to.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by entropicdrifter on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @03:39PM (#24215229)
I agree that this is a major issue and the macroeconomic forces at play here are forcing many peoples' hands.

That said, maybe you should google the phrase "The only winning move is not to play". It's a movie quote ;-)

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by sixdimensional on Thursday August 20, 2020 @12:37AM (#24219937)
How could I have forgotten. An excellent reference, well done :)

Shall we play a game?

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:28PM (#24203964)
I mean, this is really a condemnation of any data privacy practices whatsoever claimed by any company, as they may at any point in the future sell the entire company and databases with it.

unless they have clear penalties for themselves in their EULA, and no clause that says they can change anything they want at any time. So yeah I guess you're right.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by zimpenfish on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:21PM (#24203859)
> I used to use a location tracking app called Moves

Same. Nothing since has managed the same usefulness (although I suspect this is because iOS has somewhat neutered tracking apps - e.g. both OwnTracks and Gyroscope have significant issues tracking my phone.)

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by novok on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @06:00PM (#24204854)
Have you tried arc?
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by zimpenfish on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @08:34AM (#24209735)
No but I will now, thanks!

[edit, 23 minutes later]: Initial impressions were good but it's "detected" 4 segments of car movement when my phone hasn't moved a single inch. Same kind of issues that Gyroscope has, alas.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by donkey-hotei on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @07:32PM (#24205574)
just a nit: Facebook does not collect "shadow profiles".
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by commoner on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:10PM (#24206480)
Facebook does collect shadow profiles, despite its denials.

https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-a...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/anger-mounts-after-facebooks-s...

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-...

https://www.cnet.com/news/shadow-profiles-facebook-has-infor...

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/facebook-shadow-profiles-h...

The House Committee interview in the last link (TechCrunch) shows that Zuckerberg does not like to use the "shadow profiles" term, but it's what others use to refer to Facebook's tracking of non-users.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by donkey-hotei on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @01:28AM (#24207427)
I work there. If "shadow profile" means a profile that's created from PII for a specific person that doesn't have an account on the site, fb doesn't create shadow profiles.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by na85 on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @01:58AM (#24207575)
>I work there

An adage about difficulty trying to convince someone whose salary depends on their not being convinced comes to mind...

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by M277 on Thursday August 20, 2020 @04:06PM (#24228202)
Then how did FB display a lot of info about me, and recommended me all my contact list as friend recommendations when I created an account after not having one for 10+ years?

It's OK to wish to defend your company, but please do not lie; nobody forced you to comment here.

Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by raxxorrax on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @07:54AM (#24209476)
That you are that specific about P2 very clearly tells me that Facebook actually does create shadow profiles. I believe you that P2 isn't the basis of such profiles.
Re:Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices by smolder on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @09:42AM (#24210256)
It's PII, personally identifiable information, not "P2".