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Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by friedman23 on Monday August 17, 2020 @05:07PM (#24192106)
Why are we saying nihilism is bad?
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by mtalantikite on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:01PM (#24200306)
In Buddhism nihilism is one dualistic extreme, the other being eternalism. In the nihilistic view after death we are extinguished forever, and in the eternalist view we have a soul that goes on forever. Neither of these are considered correct in Buddhism. The teaching is a middle path between dualistic extremes.

There is a sutra that actually addresses nihilism, as it was a view that some schools of thought taught at the time of the Buddha. [1]

He considered it to be wrong view, a denial of the results of good or bad actions (karma) and rebirth. With the teachings on emptiness in the heart sutra it states all phenomena are marked by emptiness, “no birth no death, no being no nonbeing, no defilement no purity, no increasing no decreasing”. So nihilists would be led to cling to the view of nonbeing and not see everything else. For me at least that brought about a lot of aimless suffering.

[1] https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.060.than.html

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by groby_b on Monday August 17, 2020 @05:42PM (#24192527)
Because it is not conducive to maintaining any kind of organized group of human beings.

The idea that "life is meaningless" means that society cannot rely on you, because you'll do whatever strikes your fancy, whatever the consequences.

Worse, it is also a philosophy that contributes absolutely nothing to actually understanding the nature of the world, which is kind of the point of philosophy.

In short, nihilists are utterly useless, to themselves and the world. On the upside, they won't care.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by mpax on Monday August 17, 2020 @06:06PM (#24192772)
> The idea that "life is meaningless" means that society cannot rely on you, because you'll do whatever strikes your fancy, whatever the consequences.

How does "life is meaningless" imply "life is useless"? Also, why would nihilism entail radical individualism? The core of nihilism is that since the indifferent universe is without meaning humans have to give it meaning, quite the opposite of what you're implying.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by xdavidliu on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:30PM (#24193524)
> The core of nihilism is that since the indifferent universe is without meaning humans have to give it meaning.

I'm not that familiar with nihilism, but I'm rather surprised that "humans have to give it meaning" is part of the core. That's somewhat non-obvious to me; intuitively I would have expected nihilists to believe that meaning cannot exist.

Can you point me toward some sources that say nihilists actually believe that humans are capable of creating meaning?

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:20PM (#24194339)
>Can you point me toward some sources that say nihilists actually believe that humans are capable of creating meaning?

That's a big part of existentialism (Sartre, Camus, etc), in which life has no inherent meaning, and it's rather empty existence, and it's up to the person to make any meaning for themselves.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by ajslater on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @09:53PM (#24219071)
Existentialism's conclusion is often nihilism: Life has no meaning. Absurdism is an extension to that: Yes, but you may create your own.
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by andreilys on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:49PM (#24193657)
"This - is now my way: where is yours?' Thus I answered those who asked me 'the way'. For the way - does not exist!"

- Nietzsche in Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by yters on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:42PM (#24193610)
i question that too

what marks humans out from the rest of the meaningless universe that suddenly blesses them as meaning bearers? almost seems to imply some sort of religious idea that humans are not a part of the ubiverse

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:21PM (#24194348)
You don't need to create a concrete meaning, something that is "objectively" meaning, etc.

Just a good-enough-for-you meaning.

>almost seems to imply some sort of religious idea that humans are not a part of the ubiverse

Well, they're not like other parts, in that they have meta-cognition, and a lot of it.

Planets and black holes and ants don't wonder about meaning.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by andreilys on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:55PM (#24193699)
We've been seeking answers to big questions like where did we come from, why are we here, and where are we going, for a very long time.

Now whether that those answers are accurate is a different question. But I think it's clear that humans crave meaning, and are happy to relegate meaning-making to third party institutions such as organized religion or the media.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by MacsHeadroom on Monday August 17, 2020 @11:55PM (#24195100)
Another way to understand it is that the universe is truly "objectless" because "objects" are merely concepts in the mind of the "subject."

Non-human subjective experiencers also imagine meaningful objects in their own minds. There's nothing special about humans other than their ability to communicate with other humans.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by rdiddly on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:57PM (#24193717)
It might be more neutral to characterize it as "there's no objectively observable meaning, and whatever meaning exists was constructed by humans."
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by nvader on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:50PM (#24202645)
If there were no meaning outside of humans, then every human would be free to construct their own meaning. This then leads to radical individualism, since no frame of meaning would be truer than any other.
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by Shorel on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:28PM (#24203953)
Just to be a contrarian, try telling that to the countless species we are driving to extinction today.

(Supposing they can understand us.)

For them, we are radical individualists with no regards for nothing but ourselves.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by orestarod on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:58PM (#24206100)
That's what we do. How would letting others construct a meaning for us be better? The reason societies exist is because we lean to a human-centric meaning, not radical individualism necessarily, because we are hard wired to do so. But having a meaning imposed on you is not good, I think. Also, the reason we do good to society is because it satisfies us INDIVIDUALLY, not because we think it is efficient - there was no thinking involved in us being social beings, but evolution.
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by sysalphUS on Monday August 17, 2020 @06:41PM (#24193114)
That sounds more like absurdism.
Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by Shorel on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:25PM (#24203920)
I see it the other way around. Like, I can't even reconcile how you see the world with the reality around me.

Life is finite and it will end, just like the nihilist faction proclaims. No reincarnation, no eternal life. The eternalist faction got it wrong.

Life is an infinitesimally small spark of light but lost in the infinite darkness.

And there lies its value. Life is unique, every single moment you are alive is the most valuable moment in time, and it is therefore priceless. Carpe Diem.

Also, people always care. Even for trivialities, they always care.

I love being alive and I appreciate every single moment of it. Because I know it will be over some day.

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:19PM (#24194335)
>The idea that "life is meaningless" means that society cannot rely on you, because you'll do whatever strikes your fancy, whatever the consequences.

That's bad for society. Who said it's bad in itself or wrong?

Re:Mindfulness and meditation can worsen depression and anxiety by Rallerbabs on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:34AM (#24196784)
> because you'll do whatever strikes your fancy, whatever the consequences

That's hedonism.