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Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by kbos87 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @08:42AM (#24177285)
It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex.

It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to see the actual monthly figures... maybe it’s true that there’s an exodus afoot, or maybe SF was that much worse off from an inventory perspective until now.

It also seems plausible that SF has a unique combination of factors that put it in a bad spot right now. It’s insanely expensive, quality of life has been on the decline for some time, and the types of companies that made real estate there so expensive in the first place are also likely to be the ones that adopt remote work quickly and wholeheartedly.

SF aside, my best guess at this point is that many American cities are and will continue to actually see some amount of people leaving for lower cost and more spacious markets, especially if remote work optionality sticks in the way it looks like it will. But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do is just as much a factor as proximity to work. I think any exodus we see in most markets will amount mostly to a pull-forward of people who would have left cities anyway because of life stage, but did it a year or two early if they could.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by kbenson on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:17PM (#24179925)
The article actually notes this:

> It should be noted that San Francisco had an unusually low inventory relative to other large cities prior to the pandemic. Historically, the ratio of homes for sale relative to total housing has been a quarter of New York's.

But then they go on to assert that this is important regardless, but don't actually provide any information to back it up.

> Regardless, the 96% year on year change in inventory marks a significant moment.

I would assume if it was so self evident, it would be easy for them to include even a sentence that alludes as to why.

They say other nearby markets don't see the same shift but other nearby markets were never like SF anyway, so I'm not sure why they would indicate something in a market already known to be dissimilar.

Edit: I and the parent comment were referring to the SFGate article from another submission that got merged I to this one, as we were before the merge.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by smallnamespace on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:14PM (#24180853)
If you're a renter and you when lease renewal time comes up and you see twice as many open units in your apartment, wouldn't you also bargain more aggressively with your landlord?

Conversely, if you're a building manager and you an X% occupancy rate target, you're going to need to cut prices in order to maintain that rate if a bunch of tenants don't renew.

This is pretty much textbook microeconomics 101.

Going a bit further, occupancy rate is a signal that both sides of the market can (noisily) observe, so if the prior non-occupancy rate was very low, you'd expect a shock that doubles the rate (say, 5% -> 10%) to lead to perhaps a larger price change than in a less tight market (such as 10% -> 15%)

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by kbenson on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:07PM (#24181775)
I agree with this in general. I'm not sure how it bolsters or refutes what I said.

The premise I was responding to is that noting change in inventory will show much larger swings if there's relatively few units on the market, and that may be a poor indicator of what's going on.

Simplified, it's the difference between a market of 100 units of this 10 are avaiable inventory, and seeing an increase of 3 units (30% raise in available inventory) and a a market of 100 units that has 1 unit available and sees an increase of 2 units (200% increase in available inventory). There was an increase in inventory, and it helps, but probably not as much as 200% would lead one to believe.

The article itself noted the latter was the case in SF as there was "unusually low inventory" compared to other cities beforehand. Of course the difference is going to look outsized, in that case.

> if the prior non-occupancy rate was very low, you'd expect a shock that doubles the rate (say, 5% -> 10%) to lead to perhaps a larger price change than in a less tight market (such as 10% -> 15%)

That depends on so many other factors that I think you can't easily generalize like that for housing. If the inventory is still very low, and now instead of being uber-rich you just need to be very-rich, you're still so constrained in your potential customers that the price range may not change significantly, or if you're still catering to a class of people that do or don't traditionally commute, or if the price is hovering near the break even for a lot of people for commuting vs living local, or whether the work in the area that many of the potential customers does can be done remotely (as these articles are about), etc. Housing is one of the most complicated markets, and there are numerous counterexamples of the exact opposite happening to what you describe

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by jonahbenton on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:06PM (#24181313)
Simple supply and demand is a one-time game model. Property is a repeated, long term subgame component of the much larger repeated long term game that is the financial system. Dynamics are completely different.

One example, it makes more sense to give someone 3-6 months free at price $X than to get them in at .5 or .75 $X.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by hkmurakami on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:10PM (#24181344)
To add to this, player dynamics are quite different between big corporate landlords and small landlords.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by thewebcount on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:36PM (#24181563)
> wouldn't you also bargain more aggressively with your landlord?

It depends on the landlord. If they were reasonable, then yes, I'd bargain with them. If they were total pricks for most of the time I was there, then screw them. I can get my lower rent and hurt them in the process. I'll try that option! (At least, I bet that's the thinking of many people.)

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by mjevans on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:42PM (#24181126)
In practice I've never known how many other units were occupied, and the land lords are incredibly incentivized to sit on empty units over reducing the value of the property by lowering rent ever. The numbers thus _only_ go one direction.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by zucker42 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:25PM (#24181465)
Rents dropped significantly at the start of the pandemic in my area (from $3400 around this time last year to $2500). It's partly because I'm right next to a big college.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by asdff on Monday August 17, 2020 @12:34AM (#24184024)
In my area in LA the only drops that I've seen are management companies offering a month or so free, to keep up base rent at full price. Maybe smaller landlords are dropping prices, but it's hard to see much of a trend. I will say when I moved out of my complex into a more private place, my parking lot had like 50% capacity (it used to be full before the pandemic).
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by diebeforei485 on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:45AM (#24184355)
Depends. Some landlords are not worth it and it's better to leave.

That said, a lot of folks in SF are on month-to-month leases so they can just give a 30-day notice and peace out.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by asdff on Monday August 17, 2020 @12:31AM (#24184011)
In reality, most landlords will sooner tell you to walk and hold an empty apartment for a year than balk on rent.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by dang on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:15PM (#24179898)
Re inventory numbers: this comment was originally posted to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24176859, which points to an article that (misleadingly, as this and other comments are pointing out) referenced only a 96% increase in inventory numbers. We merged that thread into this one, which was posted earlier and points to a more substantive article. (I know it's WSJ, but there are paywall workarounds in the thread.)
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by vmception on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:35AM (#24177654)
> SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this

Bingo

Its a delta of a delta

I like the ones that show rent and pricing drops more

This chart is an additional footnote but not one to make an article about in isolation

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ghaff on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:12AM (#24177478)
At this point, it's hard to say if you're looking at blips or systemic trends. There are certainly reasons one could imagine that there's a more general exodus from San Francisco and the Silicon Valley sprawl more broadly. While I generally like SF as a visitor, the negative side of the ledger gets longer with each passing year and most of SV broadly doesn't have much going for it, especially for the CoL, except for its access to places that are actually nice. So if people don't want/need to live there for high-paid tech jobs I can certainly imagine many leaving, at least to the point where CoL somewhat adjusts to sustainable levels.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by fountainofage on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:54AM (#24177780)
> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do

I think this is key right here. For the foreseeable future, those things won't be any more available in an expensive city compared to an inexpensive rural area. So why buy a 1 bedroom for $2 million or rent one for $3500 a month if I can do the exact same amount of networking and see the exact same amount of museums while paying significantly less?

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:57AM (#24177805)
Culture and things to do include a lot more than just networking and museums.

One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area.

Even rural places that have that are also expensive- though admittedly not nearly as much so. This is generally reflected in salary though.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by Nursie on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:14PM (#24179891)
> One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area.

But that's not what you move to most cities for. SF may be exceptional in having that stuff as well, but for most cities, if you lock down the social/cultural aspects, then the natural beauty is elsewhere.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:14PM (#24181818)
It might not be why you suspect people move to cities for; but I suspect people pay a premium to live in a city that also happens to be surrounded by beauty.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by zepto on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:46PM (#24180627)
It’s a big reason why people move to the Bay Area over other cities.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by fountainofage on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:06AM (#24177887)
Those activities are also restricted and limited during COVID - either explicitly via state and local ordinances or via social pressures to not spread the virus.

Basically, the optimal solution right now is to not go anywhere or see anyone unless you absolutely have to. Which if all someone should be doing is sitting at home or getting groceries, they could do that for a lot less than SF prices.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:29AM (#24178110)
Hiking/cycling/camping can be crazy socially distant and probably one of the best things you can do for your own mental and physical health right now. A ride up Tam isn’t going to be any more or less dangerous than it was before.

Outside of a few extremely popular spots it is not restricted in Washington, at least to my knowledge. If it is in the Bay/CA then it is news to me.

In any case, that stuff will still be there when the pandemic is over. It won’t be anywhere east of the Rockies.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by vecinu on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:11PM (#24179867)
Hiking in the Bay Area is extremely difficult right now. You have to wear a mask EVERYWHERE outside where you are near people.

On trails with 90+F weather you have to put your mask on every 30 seconds with how many people there are, it's a mess.

My mental health is not improving when there are a million people all trying to do outdoor activities in the limited space we have nearby.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by gkop on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:08PM (#24180305)
Try a hiking loop in the Oakland hills parking at Redwood Bowl. The redwood canopy preserves a pleasant climate. It’s a popular spot but not bad like you’re describing. Yes you need to wear a mask much of the time, but you can get a comfortable mask that’s easy to flip on and off, it’s not a big deal.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by reissbaker on Monday August 17, 2020 @06:33AM (#24185868)
This really doesn't reflect my experience. I live in the Bay Area and have gone hiking every weekend since quarantine started, both in local spots in and around the Bay and excursions to relatively-nearby Californian parks like Sequoia National Forest.

In my experience, you bring a mask with you when you hike, and occasionally put it on for maybe twenty seconds out of every five or ten minutes (or even rarer intervals when hiking in the more remote areas like the national parks) when you pass by someone on a trail and can't maintain distance. You hardly ever have to wear it.

And aside from this past weekend, it hasn't cracked 90 in the Bay Area pretty much all summer IIRC, and rarely even gets over 80.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by chrisco255 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:13PM (#24180360)
I can't believe California is making people where masks outdoors.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by kleton on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:26PM (#24180457)
I think the order is for masks outdoors when distance cannot be maintained. So almost never outdoors.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by jschwartzi on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:19AM (#24186934)
On most maintained trails in Washington this is all the time, practically. The little trails nestled in canyons in my area are so packed I don’t go near them anymore.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Monday August 17, 2020 @10:11AM (#24187377)
I highly doubt this is actually the case. I don’t doubt it is packed in the i90 corridor and Stevens pass, etc. that was always the case though.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by jschwartzi on Monday August 17, 2020 @11:09AM (#24188009)
There's 3 or 4 really big hikes that everyone does when they first get into hiking, or that people do multiple times per day when they're training for something bigger. Those are usually packed. And anything with mild elevation gain that leads to a lake before Snoqualmie Pass on I90 is packed. But once you get past Snoqualmie Pass the masses tend to thin out. And there are a lot of lesser-known peaks and destinations before the pass that a lot of people have never heard of and that I don't talk about.

What's strange about now is that the little neighborhood walks that lead down to beaches and other "hikes" like that are completely packed with people at all times, especially on weekends. It's actually to the point where people are parking multiple blocks away and then walking to the trailhead. It didn't used to be that way.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @09:37PM (#24206317)
Yeah right on I don’t doubt that is the case. I was mostly refuting the “most” aspect of the post. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut though ;)
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:54PM (#24181210)
That’s what I thought also, but there is a lot of pressure to wear a mask where I am if you even walk out the door.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by i_am_proteus on Monday August 17, 2020 @06:47AM (#24185935)
Only other people can apply pressure. If you're not near anyone, take the mask off. If someone is pressuring you to put on your mask, that person is probably close enough that you should have a mask on.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by seanmcdirmid on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:58PM (#24189857)
The stink eye can travel from distances way beyond 6 feet.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by chrisco255 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:58PM (#24181719)
Well, it used to be a free country. I guess it was nice while personal liberty lasted. I for one, welcome our technocratic overlords.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by gojomo on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:20PM (#24179942)
Er, there's plenty of natural beauty, hiking/cycling/camping, & peaks higher than Mt. Tam east of Rockies, and even east of the Mississippi.

Otherwise, your point about there still being plenty of healthy ways to get out of the home, both practically and in accordance with official guidelines, is well-made.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:49PM (#24180147)
I’m aware that there is but heavily biased towards the diversity and depth of the natural beauty of the West Coast.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by lotsofpulp on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:04PM (#24180276)
Plus the humidity east of the Rockies makes outdoor anything unappealing, at least if you’re used to low humidity.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:39PM (#24180573)
Yes, the crowds and the humidity are killing me. House is on the market and we’re moving back out as soon as we can.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by asdff on Monday August 17, 2020 @12:42AM (#24184058)
It's actually pretty tough to camp these days. Everyone is doing it, so the familiar spots are packed with people eager to not wear a mask and rip through 24 beers in 24 hours.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ghaff on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:41AM (#24178200)
If nature's your priority though, you don't live in SF or SV proper. You live in the Santa Cruz mountains, Marin, or further north along the coast or in the mountains (or in the Sierras). Those aren't cheap either in many cases of course until you really get out of Bay Area commuting range.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by jeffbee on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:42PM (#24180091)
I don't think this is generally true. You can bike right out of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge and be away from the city in minutes. You can walk or bike out of the west side of silicon valley into a huge area of contiguous parkland. If you leave San Jose in the right direction you could hike for days without seeing anyone.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ghaff on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:15PM (#24180375)
Certainly if you want both a city and nature, SF can be attractive in that regard. But the comment I was responding to was specifically about nature. If I don't care about easy access to the city and SV, I'd live elsewhere.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by lr4444lr on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:13PM (#24181369)
You can bike right out of Philly and Boise and get the same things. Maybe even more beauty. Why should we pay SF prices for the privilege?
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ghaff on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:53PM (#24182081)
I don't live in California, though I've spent a lot of time there, and don't know much about Boise. But, having grown-up outside of Philadelphia, no there's nothing equivalent to Marin County a few miles away. Yes, there's a nice river and various parks but it's not the Bay Area.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by desert_boi on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:30PM (#24182954)
Boise is converging with the coasts in terms of pricing and its infrastructure is depressingly inadequate.

The local paper ran a story saying that the median house price in the city proper went up $15K in one month[1] and wages are not budging. 84% of the city is zoned for single family homes. Downtown pre-lockdown had 80K cars fighting for 18K parking spots.

I live in a one bedroom penthouse Downtown for $2K a month. I don't have care. It's only the 7th floor though, and on a 5 lane highway that the city has asked the state to narrow (the state refused)[2]. It's very loud from the red state types driving through with big diesel trucks and obnoxious motorcycles.

Most of the metro treats Downtown Boise as a parking lot[3]. The largest private land owner downtown is the power company (for parking lots)[4]. And the nature outside the city requires driving hours in a place that desperately needs less traffic pollution and more transit.

I'm pretty set on decamping to Boston soon to be in real tower in a city with transit.

[1] https://boisedev.com/news/2020/08/12/boise-idaho-home-sales-...

[2] https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/ar...

[3] https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/eagle-narrows-where-ap...

[4] https://boisedev.com/news/2020/07/28/idaho-power-plans-to-co...

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:09PM (#24181785)
I would say those two examples are incomparable to what is available in the Bay Area in terms of outdoor recreation access.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by kilbuz on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:16PM (#24179911)
I don't know if this is true for many people who live here. There is a subgroup of my friends who live in the city and will drive almost every weekend for 30-60 minutes with their bikes and kayaks for recreation. If you avoid the popular trails and rec areas (e.g., Muir Woods), you can get somewhere very peaceful fairly quickly. I think the balance between city and access to nature works for a lot of people who live in the Bay Area.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:44AM (#24178220)
Yes I tried to call that out in my post. Even towns like Bend, Bellingham, etc(even somewhat places in Idaho and Montana by now) are by no means cheap and on top of that they don’t have a robust job market to justify the cost.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by randycupertino on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:18PM (#24180402)
I wonder if the pandemic is going to decimate the housing markets even more in those remote mountain towns. I have two coworkers who just moved to Bozeman, MT to be closer to skiing and fishing. I would think places like Kalispell, Coeur d'Alene, Jackson Hole, Taos and Bend are all going to see a large influx of remote workers who like outdoor lifestyles.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by tjr225 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:41PM (#24180592)
I would suspect yes the pressure will be greater in areas like that. It is one of the reasons I prefer bigger cities on the west coast though; more houses, more jobs, and just as much nature.

I have worked 100% remotely for almost two years now and love it but now I live somewhere with a crappy job market. Yes I save money but I live in constant fear of having to take a 50% pay cut if I can’t find more remote work.

I love working remotely and I think it’s a great idea but I don’t think people realize how much of a leash it is when you choose to work in SV but live in the middle of nowhere.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ghaff on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:58PM (#24181242)
In my case, I live well outside of Boston with quite a bit of land and only a few houses around me. No, it's not a mountain town in the Rockies or Sierras but it means I can go into the city for an evening if I want to, have lots of potential employers within (somewhat) reasonable driving distance, and could even commute into Boston by train if I wanted to--though it wouldn't really be sustainable long-term on a daily basis.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by ericmcer on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:10PM (#24181346)
It is actually harder to get to if you are in SF, getting in/out/through SF is the most difficult part of bay area travel. South SF/Marin if you want to be close to the coast, or east bay if you want to be closer to the Sierras.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by 37r7rudjduj on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:01AM (#24177406)
> The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. <

But isn't the point of the article that San Francisco specifically is seeing an exceptional exodus? The story even mentions San Jose as a regional counter example to the observations being made of SF.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by roenxi on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:26AM (#24177573)
Something strange might be happening to do with a very local effect - maybe a couple of large employers permanently went remote first resulting in a temporary blip.

It is obvious from the charts that something unusual happened in SF. But that is different from it being sustained, not about to reverse or even important. The dust hasn't even finished rising from COVID-19 yet, let alone settled. And it isn't even clear this is COVID-19 related.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by neltnerb on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:11PM (#24179866)
I was surprised that in SF of all places the impact of COVID on AirBNB rentals wasn't even mentioned. I'd expect some people doing that have decided to just rent it like normal housing and actually increase the housing stock.

But way too early to tell, I'm still never expecting to move back there.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by rsynnott on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:17PM (#24180885)
I was wondering about that too. In Dublin, which has vaguely similar dynamics (inadequate housing supply, very large presence of tech and other industries which have gone all in on remote-for-now if not remote-forever) rental inventory is up by 60%. Which sounds like a lot, until you look at how tiny it is normally, and how much of what’s showing up to rent is very clearly hastily decommissioned Airbnb stock.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by disgruntledphd2 on Monday August 17, 2020 @04:12AM (#24185103)
And house prices still haven't started coming down...
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by rsynnott on Monday August 17, 2020 @11:28AM (#24188165)
They may not for a while. Except for new-builds outside Dublin (or marginally in county Dublin but far from the city) they didn't drop much throughout 2008; sales just slowed down. 2009-2011 was where there was really a big drop.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by xoxoy on Sunday August 16, 2020 @07:21PM (#24182250)
Airbnb has been heavily regulated in SF for years (ironically), so there hasn’t been a lot of Airbnbs that were full units vs just a spare bedroom in someone’s actual residence.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by asdff on Monday August 17, 2020 @12:36AM (#24184031)
I see that on LA craigslist. You can find plenty of apartments that come 'fully furnished' with that spartan airbnb black particleboard furniture, cheap tv, and futon. Some of them are only month to month, in anticipation of going back to airbnbing whenever that becomes profitable again, like a lightswitch.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by withinboredom on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:54PM (#24180191)
Anecdotally, I've received a huge number of DM's, emails, and even, texts, somehow, about people wanting to know the details about how I moved out of the US. I've met some very interesting people, all but one moving from the bay area.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by apineda on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:10PM (#24202085)
Out of curiosity where did you move to?
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by withinboredom on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @05:06PM (#24204346)
I live in the Netherlands. My son was 3 when we moved here; he's about to turn 6 and speaks Dutch fluently. I'm still working on it :)
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by jhowell on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:59AM (#24177815)
> It also seems plausible that SF has a unique combination of factors that put it in a bad spot right now. It’s insanely expensive, quality of life has been on the decline for some time, and the types of companies that made real estate there so expensive in the first place are also likely to be the ones that adopt remote work quickly and wholeheartedly.

I imagine people at the fringes in the city (and region really), born and raised, with local family ties making it harder to leave, might feel that this "bad spot" appeared some time ago.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by 01100011 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:07PM (#24180295)
What does the current distribution of population by age in the US look like? I would bet that younger people tend to flock to the cities more, and as they age they leave for the suburbs and the country. If that's the case, there may be demographic shifts which will combine with other factors to affect a prolonged shift away from the cities.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by opencl on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:54AM (#24177777)
The report is from Zillow, it's easy enough to see the current inventory number. I just searched and it's at 1,849 in the city limits.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by Nursie on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:16PM (#24179914)
> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do is just as much a factor as proximity to work.

Proximity to people may be something that loses appeal in the medium term.

This is a suspicion rather than anything that can be evidenced yet, we'll see how it plays out, but I think it might start counting as a negative, or less as a positive, for a while.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by throwaway2048 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:14PM (#24180370)
Few people are going to restructure their entire life over medium terms concerns, if they can avoid it.
Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by Nursie on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:35PM (#24180534)
Firstly, I disagree, I think a lot of people structure their lives around the medium term - "I'm going to retire to X one day, but for the next few years I'm doing Y", "for now the city life is great, but I'm putting aside some cash for a house in the burbs in a few years" etc etc

But secondly, that's not really what I meant, I meant that for the next several years people's motivations and choices are likely to be impacted by the virus. This may result in a larger percentage of people moving away from cities or choosing not to move to them.

i.e. I'm not talking about an individual holding the thought in their head that "I don't want to be in a city, in the medium term, but may move back later", but a population which is less favourable to city life in the medium term, and holds a greater proportion of people who think "I don't want to live in the big smoke at all"

I may be wrong, of course, but I think we're already seeing it to a small extent.

Re:Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers f... by paul7986 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @02:41PM (#24180081)
You and others here questioning the full veracity of this article says to me the media is crap! All headlines and clickbait that too many people read only such headlines and believe it's the end of the world almost.

Maybe one day the media will be forced to change for the better of society!!! As of now too many people are sheep to it (all sides)... I find local media in my small town city to be much more digestible and better for society.