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Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by rossdavidh on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:20PM (#24103450)
"Covid-19 seems to have changed [x] for good" is not worth reading, for all values of x, until we have gotten to a post-pandemic environment. It's like saying, in the seconds or even days after a car crash, that the car crash has changed your driving styles for good. Wayyyyyy too early to say.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by Barrin92 on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:35PM (#24103872)
Yep, some of these predictions are outright comical. "has covid ended handshakes forever" or "will we ever go back to bars?".

Bars and handshakes have survived thousands of years of pandemics. I get that people always tend to think their moment in history is particularly special, but I'm just gonna say if the black death didn't do something in this won't either

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by choward on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:16PM (#24104511)
> Yep, some of these predictions are outright comical. "has covid ended handshakes forever" or "will we ever go back to bars?".

I agree. Do people think it's really a good idea to always be coddling your immune system? If this were to happen, the next pandemic will probably be far worse. Just saw a study that says that having the cold recently could help your immune system fight covid-19. Of course I don't know how accurate it is, but the one thing I do know is that nobody fully understands covid and how the immune system handles it.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by mathw on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:15AM (#24107524)
There is some indication that exposure to some other coronaviruses may improve immune response to the pandemic one, but I think it's still a bit vague and undefined. Since there are coronaviruses in circulation which cause colds, this is possibly true.

It's not something to base public health policy around though!

You are certainly right that we lack a lot of understanding, including about various kinds of immune response to the virus which is critical to developing an effective vaccine. The level of scientific activity around this one virus is utterly phenomenal though. I'd like to think this is going to be a defining moment for human medicine, but I fear it might turn out otherwise.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by chrisandchips on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:09PM (#24104082)
I agree with you and I’ve been repeating this point to my close circle, though this article did (for the first time) make me sort of excited to see what will stick, if anything.

Take the searches for yeast and recipe, for example. I don’t think its totally farfetched to imagine that a sizeable handful of people have wondered, maybe for the first time, how to bake things like bread and cookies or how to make meatballs. It would be really cool if we actually saw these things’ growth in popularity persist in some tangible form into the future. These things have definitely existed for a long time, but I feel like we North Americans have been trending towards fast food and delivered meals for a few decades now.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by DoingIsLearning on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:11PM (#24104479)
I agree with the general feeling of promoting home cooked food and having/learning the skill set for it.

However, specifically on the bread making aspect, we should probably do some back of the napkin estimations before supporting this more long term.

One good thing about a bakery is that it uses huge ovens, in which multiples trays of bread are baked, at the same time, with minimal dead space.

Contrast that with the scenario where we all decide to start baking our own bread, in a normal oven, raising it to very high temperatures, for a long period, to bake a single loaf every 1 or 2 days. This sort of makes me worry what would be the carbon impact of that consumer change?

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by cardiffspaceman on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:58PM (#24104744)
The future of home electric power is renewable power such as rooftop photovoltaic, so maybe the change's carbon impact tracks the trend of the rest of home carbon impact? Efficiency at a community level should be considered, but it should be considered while looking at all the trends.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by abraxas on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:44PM (#24104954)
I'm not sure bars existed in the times of Black Death. I learned recently that a sit down restaurant with a menu is a relatively new thing. Two hundred years or so. Plus minus a few decades.

Your point still stands though. I just thought I would point that out as I found it somewhat interesting because for a long time I had assumed that restaurant business was much older than that.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by autora on Monday August 10, 2020 @02:22AM (#24106161)
>I'm not sure bars existed in the times of Black Death

depends what you mean by a bar?

In the UK, taverns certainly existed prior to the Black Death (1346 – 1353). For instance:

> Established in the 13th Century, The White Hart Inn on Drury Lane claims to be London’s oldest pub. Historical records show its first license was granted as early as 1216

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2017/10/the-15-oldest-pubs...

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by therealcamino on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @11:24PM (#24139670)
This article kind of fudges the Black Death and an Italian plague 300 years later, but there were "wine windows" to allow serving without physical contact, and some have been recently put back into service:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/08/10/restaurants...

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by tsomctl on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:55PM (#24105017)
Restaurants have existed for millennia. It's just that you didn't get to choose what you ate. It was whatever the cook had lots of that day.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by ceejayoz on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:38PM (#24104928)
> Bars and handshakes have survived thousands of years of pandemics.

Most of those thousands of years we had no clue such things could spread diseases.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by bawolff on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:26AM (#24106861)
We might not have known the specifics however I'm pretty sure we have known for a long time that hanging around sick people makes you sick.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by asaph on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:44PM (#24104293)
> Yep, some of these predictions are outright comical. "has covid ended handshakes forever"

I hope so. Handshakes are pathogen vector I can easily do without. And they don't seem essential to anyone's livelihood.

> handshakes have survived thousands of years of pandemics. I get that people always tend to think their moment in history is particularly special, but I'm just gonna say if the black death didn't do something in this won't either

Our understanding of infection has advanced since then. Let's apply the knowledge.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by NoOneNew on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:36PM (#24103534)
Yea, was going to say the same. I'm personally sick and tired of hearing "the new normal". No, it's temporary, get over the doomsday fetish. I swear this is worse than those hardcore preppers who pray for an apocalypse. Every person that goes, "the end is near" over every damn thing is literally the least or naively prepared person for such a thing. It's just a fetish developed by people unable to cope with any state of existence. They just think that if no one is doing well, then they're equal with everyone else.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by wolco on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:59PM (#24103676)
Not sure you are using the right word.

If a prepper subscribed to your idea wouldn't they think they are better off not equal because of the investments they made.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by NoOneNew on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:19PM (#24104140)
That's fair.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by blaser-waffle on Monday August 10, 2020 @02:45PM (#24112612)
> They just think that if no one is doing well, then they're equal with everyone else.

A great deal of human existence is comparing yourselves to others, and exalting youself over everyone else when possible. If you can't be better than them at least you can take consolation they're equally miserable.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by Jedd on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:15PM (#24103758)
Your point is true for some, but I dispute 'all values of x'.

Post-pandemic, yes, some items from that page are going to return to pre-pandemic numbers, I'm sure - hangover, restaurant, ticket, etc.

But for people who've discovered that stuff they grow at home - from herbs on the balcony to tomatoes in the yard - taste much better, are unlikely to just forget that.

Similarly people discovering this year that they enjoy the process and flavours of cooking or baking bread are also unlikely to forget it all.

Ditto people who pay more attention to their health and work environment - dumbbell, standing desk.

Google search terms are likely to reach stasis, of course, as people who want this knowledge now have it, but that doesn't mean there won't be a shift in people's behaviours and activities.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by toomanybeersies on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:51PM (#24104705)
> But for people who've discovered that stuff they grow at home - from herbs on the balcony to tomatoes in the yard - taste much better, are unlikely to just forget that.

That is, until everyone has to go back to working in offices etc, and they realise they don't have time to maintain a garden any more.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by amanaplanacanal on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:58PM (#24104745)
I expect there to be at least some long term effect. Some number of folks are probably going to switch to work from home semi permanently. Not having to spend all those hours commuting is bound to have some effect.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by rossdavidh on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:02PM (#24104408)
Not saying "not true for all values of x", I'm claiming "not worth reading for all values of x", because it's way too soon to make predictions about what will stick and what won't. I could imagine that _something_ will stick, I just don't think the Economist or anyone else is going to be any good at predicting what.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by Jedd on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:07PM (#24104782)
I guess TFA doesn't think there's a constraint on how soon they can offer up some predictions based on google search words.

> I just don't think the Economist or anyone else is going to be any good at predicting what.

So your early prediction is that their early predictions are going to be wrong? ; )

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by rossdavidh on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:43PM (#24115562)
Ha! Yes, although technically I'm just saying "frequently wrong", for example maybe half of them, and thus not worth reading.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by tdeck on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:43AM (#24106950)
I don't know. I just listened to this great podcast [1] about victory gardens during WW1 and WW2. Many of them were set up all across the US, but after the war ended people pretty much abandoned them. Turns out growing food is hard work and most people don't want to do it, even as a supplement.

That said I'm definitely making it a goal to never buy green onions again - it's so easy to regrow them.

[1]: https://gastropod.com/dig-for-victory/

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by Jedd on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @11:13PM (#24128276)
Understood, but I suspect some of that may be cultural (allotment gardens in the UK are extremely popular with lengthy waiting lists), and synchronised with the push in the USA during the 1940's and 1950's towards suburbanisation and consumerism.

My gut feel is that because there was already a popular trend to 'getting your fingers in the soil', as well as the slow food movement, that combined with the forced rethink of how we spend time, effort, and money, we will see some longer lasting effects.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by shrimpx on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:46PM (#24103607)
Also all those trends it shows are all approaching the old baseline.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by tonyedgecombe on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:00AM (#24106712)
I think it's a reasonable assumption that any existing trends that are accelerated by covid will be fairly sticky.

An obvious example in the UK is people switching to grocery delivery. Some people will switch back but a lot will continue because the virus helped them past whatever inertia was holding them back before.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by perl4ever on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:54PM (#24105013)
I'm finding a sudden interest in reading letters/diaries from during WWII, when people didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

It's true that people don't have the same information and perspective as they will later, but time also warps and obscures aspects of a period when history is being made.

Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by apatters on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:50AM (#24105991)
Just flag the article and be done with it. My tolerance for clickbait headlines has gone to zero during this pandemic.
Re:90% economy, 120% gastronomy: Covid-19 seems to have chan... by dredmorbius on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:08PM (#24103723)
s/for good/for the better/

In the "it's an improvement" sense, not the "it's a permanent change" sense.