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Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Saturday August 08, 2020 @09:46AM (#24091592)
Or reciprocated.

Chinese citizens have invested a ton in US businesses, which is sort of okay. They also bought a ton of land in the US, which led to skyrocketing housing prices, and in the long term, if it continues unabated, will lead to the US paying tribute to China in the form of rents on US land. There is no upside to this. We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets. They got our real estate. Didn't we do this to the indigenous people here once ourselves?

To be clear: I'm not opposed to being able to buy foreign land per se, but I am opposed to how one-sided this is. For the most part, US entities can't really own real estate in China (and even with Chinese entities, it's complex, but that's another story).

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by Wolfenstein98k on Saturday August 08, 2020 @09:50AM (#24091612)
Here in Australia, it's a giant issue too. There are plenty of houses which are Chinese-owned but unoccupied. They are effectively "banks" for storing cash. The scale is shocking, our "foreign ownership" figures for real estate are entirely skewed to this one country.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday August 08, 2020 @08:27PM (#24096350)
I believe Switzerland has a relatively elegant solution for this: You get taxed on the expected rental income if the house is empty unless you can prove that you couldn't rent it out.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by mthoms on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:14AM (#24097431)
Same here in Vancouver.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by six2seven on Saturday August 08, 2020 @05:18PM (#24095304)
Similarly in Spain. In large cities like Madrid or Barcelona these guys are owning properties, running both small and large businesses and very often avoiding taxes (try to ask in one of small venues for a bill and be sure then to check it). Moreover, quite some properties are Chinese-owned winding up the rental prices for local population, which were already pumped up by popularity of short-term holiday rentals such as AirBnB. These have been pretty well known problems to local population, but nobody up is doing anything about it, since it is an easy and quick money.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by fuzxi on Saturday August 08, 2020 @05:05PM (#24095200)
It's the same in Canada, too.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by haecceity on Saturday August 08, 2020 @05:57PM (#24095572)
> Didn't we do this to the indigenous people here once ourselves?

Not until they invade and slaughter everyone here. And no that's probably not going to happen. Hilarious that people think this way though.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:05AM (#24099043)
sigh

This is among the dumbest arguments I've ever read on the Internet. I'm not sure if I'm not just being trolled, but it's like someone arguing Google didn't make Google Reader because they made Google Search. You can do more than one thing.

For reference:

http://newamsterdamhistorycenter.org/education/schaghen.html

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by haecceity on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:50PM (#24114423)
Apologies. That's just what I thought of when the comparison with indigenous was brought up.

But that's not the only reason it's a bad comparison. When Manhattan was purchased there was no market. Chinese are buying things at market prices. Which I was taught are fair.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by kiba on Saturday August 08, 2020 @09:56AM (#24091647)
Rich chinese buying real estate in the United Stats has detrimental effect on the poor and the middle class, and our economy in general, leading to ossification.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by beaunative on Saturday August 08, 2020 @04:08PM (#24094791)
Any rich person who buy more houses than he can live will create this problem. And there is no incentive for the government to do anything, because the real estate price is their tax, at least for the local government.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by BLKNSLVR on Saturday August 08, 2020 @10:47PM (#24096886)
Incentive at scale is the problem. Incentives must taper off to make real estate / property investment less inviting the more is owned, this opening it up to more people at the lower levels.

But then will start the games of complicated / opaque business ownership structures allowing for individuals to own lots of real estate through different channels to make it look like it's separate entities.

And there is zero motivation from most of the world's leadership to clean up business ownership structure transparency because so many of them are ... participants.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by galimaufry on Saturday August 08, 2020 @11:09AM (#24092198)
Land is just an export like any other.

China produces lots of manufactured goods, and sells them to the US. The US produces tons of valuable urban real estate and exports it to China. (Similarly the US produces lots of higher education, and exports it in the form of international students)

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Saturday August 08, 2020 @01:26PM (#24093389)
Land can be viewed as an export, but it's not like any other.

Economically, there is a fundamental difference between finite, rent-generating resources like land, and value-added goods like Chinese trinkets or international students.

Exporting value-added goods builds the economy. Exporting rent-collecting resources results in significant long-term harm to the economy.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by magicsmoke on Saturday August 08, 2020 @01:36PM (#24093475)
China and Singapore recognize the importance of land due to its inherent scarcity, hence most land is held by the state and foreign ownership banned or discouraged. Frankly, most countries should recognize the importance of keeping land ownership under domestic control. However, this prevents existing wealthy land owners from exiting their holdings easily by selling to the global market instead of just the domestic market, and money speaks loudly in politics.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by mr_toad on Saturday August 08, 2020 @10:01PM (#24096699)
One is a current account, one is a capital account. The US has been running a current account deficit, and the only way to sustain that is to have a capital account surplus, which means foreign investment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_account

Just like a business, a country can maintain short term losses by accepting outside investment, or debt. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Almost all companies take on debt and investment to fund their growth.

Also, just like a business, you can’t do this forever. At some point the debt comes due, and/or you end up selling the whole business.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:59AM (#24099012)
Or to be the world's reserve currency. One of our major exports is dollars. We can keep running some level of deficit so long as that continues. With inflation, the world needs more and more dollars.

Outside investment in businesses is not a bad thing. Outside investment in land is.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by galimaufry on Saturday August 08, 2020 @03:56PM (#24094673)
Sorry, I should have consistently specified "urban" land. Urban land is not finite (cities grow) and is very high value-added.

American policy makers have chosen policies (eg zoning law) that make it easy to produce valuable urban residences. Now they have a massive competitive advantage in high-end residences, so of course they will become exporters.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by dragonwriter on Saturday August 08, 2020 @03:59PM (#24094714)
> Urban land is not finite (cities grow)

“Capable of growth” and “not finite” are not the same thing.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by galimaufry on Saturday August 08, 2020 @07:36PM (#24096104)
I'm using 'finite' in the same colloquial sense as GP:

> there is a fundamental difference between finite, rent-generating resources like land, and value-added goods

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by dragonwriter on Saturday August 08, 2020 @08:10PM (#24096280)
But urban land is finite in every sense in which land is finite, so no matter what sense the poster was using it in regard to land, you are incorrect to say urban land is not finite.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by baq on Saturday August 08, 2020 @04:32PM (#24094986)
> Land is just an export like any other.

i'm in the market for a few TEUs of US land, preferably downtown san francisco. i'll pick it up in Hamburg or Antwerp and would like a house on it.

sarcasm off - just no.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by mistrial9 on Saturday August 08, 2020 @04:41PM (#24095038)
ask the residents of Vancouver, BC what they say about this
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by scruple on Saturday August 08, 2020 @02:00PM (#24093703)
> We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets.

No, what we got was a new robber baron class of ultra-rich billionaires the likes of which haven't been seen since the federal government had to break up Standard Oil, etc... Which has led to extreme wealth inequality and a complete lack of access to _our fucking politics_ for the vast majority of Americans.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:09AM (#24099062)
We can get more than one thing. I mean, sure, you didn't write anything wrong, but how is that an argument against "We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets?"

How is this even connected to the flow of the conversation?

Do you respond this way to everyhing? I can just imagine your household.

[Kids running in]: We got a pizza party at school!

[Parent]: No, what we got was a new robber baron class of ultra-rich billionaires the likes of which haven't been seen ...

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by dang on Monday August 10, 2020 @02:24PM (#24112371)
Please don't cross into personal attack on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by scruple on Sunday August 09, 2020 @11:50AM (#24100365)
> how is that an argument against "We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets?"

It's not, you just read it that way.

> How is this even connected to the flow of the conversation?

One thing (outsourcing our manufacturing -> getting cheap Chinese shit in return) has clearly led to the other (the profits not trickling down through the economy -> our political parties becoming influence peddlers).

For some bizarre reason you seem really offended by what I wrote. I think that your comment says more about you than what you think it says about me. Have a good one.

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by murgindrag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:16PM (#24101093)
>> how is that an argument against "We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets?"

>It's not, you just read it that way.

Your comment literally started by saying "No." In English, that means you disagree with what I wrote. It's followed by a comma, where in a standard English construction you would present your counterargument.

> For some bizarre reason you seem really offended by what I wrote.

I wasn't offended at all. I was a little overwhelmed by the apparent stupidity of the non sequitur response (and I use 'apparent' very deliberately -- it's possible you miswrote what you meant, or I misread it). I think this summarizes my reaction best:

http://quotegeek.com/quotes-from-movies/billy-madison/1122/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPXEdJ_Gtx0

[dead]
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by dang on Monday August 10, 2020 @02:24PM (#24112380)
Please don't respond to someone else breaking the site guidelines by breaking them yourself. That only makes the thread even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by scruple on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:39PM (#24113190)
You're right. Sorry, dang.
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by echlebek on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:05PM (#24103706)
You literally quoted their assertion and then responded "No".
Re:How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company by scruple on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:50PM (#24103950)
Yeah, I did. You'll have to forgive me for having been loose with the language I used to write a random comment on the internet. I'm sure I could've worded it differently and in a way that made more sense to the specific context.

You'll also have to forgive me for not responding to that specific critique until you came along, I guess. I'd have been happy to reply to that previously if I hadn't been very condescendingly talked down to about the literal definition of the word no and then told that I ran a household like an asshole, etc...