News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by tdhz77 on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @11:43AM (#24062076)
I keep encouraging people to use Firefox over the others. My efforts keep failing. Mozilla’s focus on privacy is important and should be to others. People have been burned in the past and are willing to give up privacy for something that just works. The irony.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by noahtallen on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:22PM (#24062567)
FF’s UX around things not related to browsing is slightly worse on all platforms. It’s most obvious on iOS where some of the styles for your “library” just don’t work correctly on iPhone 10’s. I also think their model for managing non-browsing stuff is too complex comparatively.

To access many things like history and bookmarks, you need to use the dropdown menu on the right, which has like 30 different options in it, some of which seem similar but are actually different. Those options are sometimes also available from different locations, so it can be confusing how to access what you’re looking for.

Other browsers are a lot more polished in this area, like Brave, Chrome, and even the new MS Edge. None are perfect, but I find their UX and UK slightly easier to use and generally less clunky. If FF fixed that, I’d be completely sold on it. But as is, I keep going back to the drawing board.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by cuddlybacon on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:59PM (#24064279)
I also avoid FF because of the UI. It's what I use on my PC, which doesn't get used much. If I have to VNC into a linux machine at work, I'll use it there as well. But that is even rarer.

The last time I noticed a UI change, it was for the worse. The made the url/navigation/search bar get bigger when it had focus. To me that is pretty dumb, and I wish you could turn it off. Knowing Firefox you probably can, but a few Google searches couldn't tell me how. If this was done on a product that already had a good UI, it wouldn't seem like a big deal. But given how much low hanging fruit there is in Firefox's UI, it makes you question their priorities.

This is all really weird, since what made Firefox take off in the first place was its better UI. A lot of websites had compatibility issues, and people wanted to use Firefox in spite of them. A lot of webdevs got to work fixing these issues because they wanted to be able to switch to Firefox themselves. It seems that Mozilla never really understood how much its UI advantage helped Firefox get popular. Instead they seem to attribute that period of success to things that I think most people consider nice to haves: extensions, privacy, about:config, etc.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by spanhandler on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:22PM (#24065136)
Yeah, I also remember what sold it in the Phoenix/Firebird days, and what got me to insist on installing it for everyone I knew, being 1) popup/under blocking, 2) it was really light and nimble compared to the competition (IE, Netscape/Mozilla), both in terms of the program itself and the browsing experience, and 3) the interface was very clean, clear, and pleasant to use. Tabbed browsing was just a nice bonus and I don't remember extensions really mattering much until well after it'd started to get traction from early adopters like me installing it on everything we came in contact with. Really, it was basically Opera with a less-slightly-weird-feeling UI and no adbar in the free version.

Given those early reasons for favoring it, from my perspective it's mostly gotten worse since 2.0 came out.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by sedatk on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:42PM (#24062802)
Firefox is especially bad in download UX. The “something is downloading” animation isn’t noticeable enough, causing me to click on download links multiple times and wondering why it didn’t work.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by prox on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:59PM (#24064278)
Haha, and I find the mega bar on the bottom in Chrome super annoying. Get out of my face! ;)
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by fireattack on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:48PM (#24062860)
At least they recently added the animation back.

It was nearly invisible for quite a long period.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by atombender on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:02PM (#24063649)
I long assumed the slightly-wonky UX in Firefox was due to a mountain of legacy tech debt around XUL and so on that they were still struggling to remove. Firefox doesn't really feel all that native on macOS, for example, though it's not terrible. Chrome/Brave doesn't always feel native, for that matter, but it's not nearly as clunky.

But then I installed the Firefox iOS app, which must surely have an UI written from scratch, and it's just as weird. I'm starting to think that they just don't put enough effort into UX, or perhaps don't hire the right people.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by mitchdoogle on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @11:49AM (#24062142)
Do people think Firefox doesn't work? I've noticed zero difference between using Firefox and Chrome and I've used both daily for five years or so.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by gen220 on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:02PM (#24062303)
For me, there are only subtle differences. I use Chrome for work (golden browser for our web apps) and FF personally.

Google maps has never worked well for me on FF. The "old"/basic interface for Gmail works fine, but the new one was noticeably slower.

It doesn't seem exclusive to Google, however. Many PWA sites (including bank websites!) have, from time to time, inexplicably failed to load certain elements on FF, while loading them without fail on GC.

I don't really fault FF for this, but it is what it is.

The good news is it seems to be getting better. Every month or so, I try these trouble sites in FF, and every month I have fewer "trouble sites".

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by jackson1442 on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:36PM (#24062712)
I’ve personally found that the new gmail interface is simply awful on every browser, just a little less awful on Chrome.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by dwighttk on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @01:14PM (#24063144)
Gmail IMAP interface is fine
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by Widow on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @11:55AM (#24062215)
Google has an incredible walled garden of apps and things that 'just' work together seamlessly. I remember switching from FF to Chrome years ago as Chrome was measurably faster. The staying power was using Google's entire suite of apps with Chrome. Things like copying and pasting without formatting or searching for strings all contribute to stickiness.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by Chirael on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:18PM (#24063855)
I use Google apps in Edge, and nothing else in Edge. I use Firefox for all other web browsing, and avoid doing anything Google related in Firefox. I won't install Chrome on my machine at all and don't need to - Edge is good enough, now that it's Chromium-based.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by BuckRogers on Thursday August 06, 2020 @12:55AM (#24068234)
I use Edge similarly. I'm glad it's here and it's good because Firefox keeps losing share and I'm glad I have a second browser now from a major vendor that I could live with if developers stop testing with FF or if too many sites are broken using it for any reason.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by wolco on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:16PM (#24063830)
Chrome opens up files and slows everything down windows 7.

Using chrome once it loads with everything else shutdown seems fast.

Firefox is overall faster because of those issues. But firefox will use too much memory and kill itself in time. But has gotten better at killing itself without killing everything else.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by infinityplus1 on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:05PM (#24062346)
I have to frequently open Google Meet in Chrome because other users can't see my screen while screen sharing using Firefox.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by kiwijamo on Thursday August 06, 2020 @02:16AM (#24068553)
Interestingly, when we had lockdown in my country I tried using Google Meets in Chrome and it just shat itself. Switched to Firefox and Meets worked so much better in Firefox. Very strange...
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by BuckRogers on Thursday August 06, 2020 @12:57AM (#24068244)
It works fine in Edge as well if you don't want to support that sort of neglectful behavior by Google.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by megous on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:50PM (#24062891)
They didn't manage to fix developer tools for like last 5-7 releases (despite multiple reports of it being broken). Network tab still messes up/merges unrelated requests together, and style editor shows completely garbage content every other reload, like this (probably related issue to the request confusion):

https://megous.com/dl/tmp/33d9622c7e53e3bc.png

https://megous.com/dl/tmp/8b3e50856a913236.png

I still use it as a primary browser even for development, but with issues like this being unresolved for almost a year, it's really hard.

Ever since the rewrite in React, it's really bad. First a massive performance regression (which improved over time, thankfully), but it still has major issues like the above.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by megous on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @01:04PM (#24063049)
One wonders if it's just devtools or if the whole browser is leaking random data everywhere. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by ImaCake on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @06:16PM (#24066215)
I suspect the problem is that firefox sometimes performs poorly. But most power users don't see this problem because they either have firefox when it performs well or because they have a powerful computer.

For reasons I cannot understand, firefox on my 8GB RAM windows surface eats up huge amounts of memory. But it uses very little RAM with the same profile on my much more powerful desktop.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by heavyset_go on Thursday August 06, 2020 @01:03PM (#24072932)
Some extensions have memory leaks. There might be a discrepancy between the extensions you have installed or their versions.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by seventh-chord on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:52PM (#24062910)
Im unable to book flights with local airlines via firefox because the payment popup gets blocked with no warning. Sure, I can figure out whats going on and use a different browser, but it's terrible UX.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by indigochill on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:56PM (#24062957)
Not even the tiny little box in the right side of the address bar that says a popup was blocked? I've seen blocked pop-ups there before, but never heard of or seen Firefox block a pop-up with absolutely no feedback.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by prox on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:57PM (#24064256)
Might be a dhtml (Div) popup, dynamically generated. Those are harder to block.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by evolve2k on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:49PM (#24064161)
Chrome offers this quiet magical feature called ‘tab to search’, Firefox allows you to make custom search key shortcuts but you need to make each of them. It’s just not as easy to use and is a killer feature that’s very fast/useful and missed for anyone who uses it and tries to switch away to Firefox.

It’s the only thing that keeps pulling me back to Chrome, as well as many others I’ve seen discuss it in forums over the years.

There’s no Firefox extension to add it and as Firefox users don’t have it they don’t miss it.

Really, sort this, you’ll quietly unlock a bunch more switches.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1177556

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by ric2b on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:29PM (#24064578)
I just have duckduckgo as my default search engine, that way I can use the bangs to search almost any site that's even remotely mainstream by starting my search with !w (wikipedia), !y (youtube) !hn (hacker news), !g (google), etc.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by WorldMaker on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:45PM (#24065406)
There is related functionality built-in to Firefox (since basically forever) you can assign keywords to any installed search provider and then search that specific search engine by prefixing your search with the keyword you assigned. So you could assign !g directly in Firefox options and Firefox will take you directly to Google for that search (no need for the intermediate duckduckgo).

You can add things like YouTube etc as well so long as they have "OpenSearch" metadata. (Presumably what Chrome is using for "tab to search"?) [1]

[1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-or-remove-search-en...

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by heavyset_go on Thursday August 06, 2020 @01:07PM (#24072980)
Firefox is getting rid of, or has already got rid off, OpenSearch integrations[1].

What you're describing is a bookmark substitution search feature that's independent of OpenSearch, and Mozilla calls the feature keyword searches[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch#Support

[2] http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_keyword_searches

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by WorldMaker on Thursday August 06, 2020 @02:03PM (#24073697)
My understanding is that Firefox still uses the OpenSearch metadata shallowly as the easiest way to create the "keyword search bookmarks" rather than writing a bookmark by hand (though your second link was what I was looking for on how to do that and it seems quite easy/convenient to do yourself if you had to). I don't believe that shallow auto-bookmark discovery is/will be dropped, they dropped a more complicated add-on/extension-based approach that supported more OpenSearch features.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by heavyset_go on Thursday August 06, 2020 @06:59PM (#24076315)
Thanks for taking the time to explain the change, it looks like you're correct.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by typon on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:48PM (#24064158)
NetflixParty is the only extension that I actually use that isn't on Firefox. I wish someone made a clone. I wonder if there's something technical preventing that from happening.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by ffpip on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:53PM (#24064205)
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by typon on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:54PM (#24064209)
how the hell didnt i find this before...
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by l3s2d on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:13PM (#24064399)
There is Metastream (https://getmetastream.com/), but it doesn't seem as easy to use.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by heavyset_go on Thursday August 06, 2020 @12:57PM (#24072861)
Last year, I was on a Zoom call where I shared my screen, and several web developers asked if I "seriously still use Firefox" as if I was stuck in 2005.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by cgs on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @01:31PM (#24063321)
I've had issues with audio on Apple TV glitching out on Firefox. Only thing I use Chrome for
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by m463 on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:20PM (#24062551)
I use umatrix to block stuff and a side effect is that EVERYTHING is much faster.

Some sites routinely load hundreds of items from dozens of third-party servers, so this shouldn't be surprising.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by ragnese on Thursday August 06, 2020 @11:15AM (#24071663)
Everyone who is quasi-technical should be using uMatrix. I'm a privacy nut, but I don't think you even have to be much of one to appreciate the value that something like uMatrix provides.

On the other hand, everyone keeps saying that it speeds up their browsing experience, but anecdotally, I'm not sure I experience the same thing.

I do have a couple of other addons that are likely clouding this judgment. Not to mention my specific machine, network connection, sites I typically browse, etc, etc.

But is it possible that processing the requests for things to strip, and then updating uMatrix's UI elements is causing more overhead than just letting the assets load (which may even be cached)?

Not to mention that if I do encounter a broken site and I decide to try to make it work, I end up refreshing it 5 or so times before getting it minimally functional. The time spent doing that surely outweighs the time of just letting it load.

But I'm not saying to abandon uMatrix. Just that I use it for privacy, not performance or convenience.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by DavideNL on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:59PM (#24062998)
Agreed, also I was surprised to see how much website still work while blocking all the third party scripts.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by muststopmyths on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:22PM (#24064484)
I recently gave up on firefox after trying for years to use it for my more sensitive browsing (email, bank, investments, etc.) where I could not run javascript blockers.

3 big problems (and many minor little things that i hit every day but haven't bothered to record)

- composing email in gmail is horrible. unexplained bursts of lag where it hangs for several seconds and may or may not lose anything I typed in that interval. This one is recent as of the past couple of months.

- outlook email just not updating or refreshing until I restart the browser.

- lagginess in most if not all input boxes (could be related to the first problem above).

- every few updates it will lose all my containers and I have to make them from scratch.

It may be something these sites are doing wrong, but I don't have the patience any more. Chrome works, Edgemium works, so I switched.

still use firefox for facebook container, but that's about it.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by BadassFractal on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:23PM (#24065155)
Firefox is my daily driver as well, and I experience a bunch of lag with it too. Overall it's stable and reliable, but it feels slow. I usually fail over to Chromium if Firefox is misbehaving.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by jm4 on Thursday August 06, 2020 @12:07AM (#24068035)
I've been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix and I used Mozilla before that. I'm pretty annoyed with Firefox lately. There's the pocket junk, the significantly worse battery life, the DOH stuff really pisses me off. How can they pitch themselves as the privacy browser when they siphon off my DNS traffic by default? Why does anyone give them a free pass on that? About the only thing they have going for them is they're not Chrome and that's not saying much. Lately, I find myself spending much more time in other browsers to see if one of them can become my daily driver. I fear that Firefox is becoming irrelevant.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by twblalock on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @01:56PM (#24063593)
I have several reasons for not using Firefox:

Font rendering looks non-native on most platforms.

Scrolling behavior seems non-native on most platforms.

The combined location/search bar seems slower, and gives less useful results, than the same feature in other browsers.

Inferior developer tools.

Mozilla's marketing portraying itself as the white knight of the open web is tiresome and contradicted by past behavior. Pocket is still installed by default, and remember the Mr. Robot scandal?

Tracking is easily defeated in other browsers. Besides, if you use Gmail and Google search, and watch videos on Youtube, you've already decided to give your data to Google and you might as well use Chrome too.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by Semaphor on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:24PM (#24063917)
> Inferior developer tools.

Very much an opinion, I prefer the Firefox dev tools, especially with the recent changes.

And while I can’t speak for other OS, scrolling and font rendering looks native on Windows and has for years.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by WorldMaker on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:52PM (#24065467)
I find most people that complain about Firefox dev tools other than just not knowing where the cheese is stored often just need slight tweaks to their sourcemaps. That problem is self-reinforcing because so many developers only test in Chrome that some of the biggest tools in the ecosystem (webpack, for a big for instance) default to sourcemaps that only work in Chrome, when they could just easily produce sourcemaps that work in both.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by kiwijamo on Thursday August 06, 2020 @02:20AM (#24068567)
Your font rendering remark stands out as a odd remark. I use Firefox as a daily driver across my own PC (Windows), my work laptop (Mac) and on my phone (Android). Font rendering looks fine across all three platforms. Perhaps it seems better to me because Firefox renders things the same way across all platforms (even if it differs from native)? I think I quite like how Firefox renders things the same way regardless of which device I am using. Makes it easier for me to context switch between my devices.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by sjellis on Thursday August 06, 2020 @03:53AM (#24068960)
> Mozilla's marketing portraying itself as the white knight of the open web is tiresome and contradicted by past behavior. Pocket is still installed by default, and remember the Mr. Robot scandal?

Here, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Firefox is the only Web browser that is not owned by a giant for-profit company with a vested interest in controlling your computing platform.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by wolco on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @02:11PM (#24063768)
What platform are you using?
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by bishalb on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:08PM (#24062368)
I would use it regularly if it weren't noticably slower than Chrome and in many cases unresponsive (I get the yellow bar at the top that says site isn't responding or something like that, when the same site opens fine on chrome). I have the developer edition installed and am logged in via alternate profiles on some sites there. Often times, it displays a blank for a few seconds on heavy sites(with just 2 tabs open) before loading the content.

The developer console is also slower than Chrome's.

Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by shock on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @12:44PM (#24062822)
If you are a developer, I encourage you to create a test case that reproduces the issue reliably and then profile Firefox in that test case. If you feel a bit apprehensive about doing so, it is worth mentioning that profiling Firefox is not terribly hard and you can share the profile with Firefox developers.
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by kiwijamo on Thursday August 06, 2020 @02:23AM (#24068579)
That is really strange. I run Firefox on two different machines (plus my phone). One is my PC which is several years old and the other is my work's Mac which is also showing its age. Yet Firefox runs pretty fast on both (while other apps struggle, especially on my work Mac). I rarely see that yellow bar during typical usage...
Re:Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0 by chrisjc on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @11:52AM (#24062174)
Maybe it's just a coincidence, but since we're doing more and more things over screenshare these days, I've noticed that all my peers are starting to use Firefox. I like to think it's because they've seen me use it when I'm sharing my screen.