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Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by culturestate on Saturday August 01, 2020 @12:33AM (#24017646)
To clarify, they aren't shutting down Cortana completely - they're ending support for the standalone Cortana apps, which makes sense. What I find more interesting is how they're handling their smart speaker partnership:

> ...we’ve worked closely with Harman Kardon to create a Bluetooth-enabled device transition plan that we hope will help ease the impact of this change. Customers who receive a firmware update from Harman Kardon in early 2021 will still be able to continue listening...on their Invoke via Bluetooth.

If I'm reading this correctly, they're basically saying "very few people really use this as a 'smart' speaker, so we'll just turn it into a normal Bluetooth speaker and move on." I'm not sure whether that says more about Cortana or about the smart speaker market, but it seems like an...ok compromise? Certainly better than just bricking the thing.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by mrweasel on Saturday August 01, 2020 @01:55AM (#24018017)
I think very few use the voice feature, but those who do will hate losing it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that only a few percent of iPhone users uses Siri.

The hype surrounding digital voice assistants have died out. It’s still useful in a few situations, but not having one isn’t as huge a defeat as it would have been 5 years ago. Microsoft could drop Cortana completely and be fine.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by pjmlp on Saturday August 01, 2020 @03:06AM (#24018339)
I never bother with such devices, because they hardly ever support European Portuguese properly and I am not going to speak foreign languages at home just to make a device happy.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by frereubu on Saturday August 01, 2020 @06:24AM (#24019313)
I'm a British English speaker, and about 15 years ago I spent an afternoon experimenting with the basic voice recognition on OSX. I found that I had to mimic a US or Australian accent to get it to work, and I wondered what my next-door neighbours were thinking when they heard me cycle repeatedly through "Give me the phone number for Firstname Lastname" with British, US and Australian accents.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by GordonS on Sunday August 02, 2020 @05:35AM (#24027536)
Scot here, I have this problem with telephone voice menus. Actually, I've also had this problem in the US as well, particularly while on the telephone. Putting on a fake US accent seems to work, but it's so damn embarrassing and I guess could be construed as offensive by some people (if they thought I was taking the piss).

I had the same issue recently with a BMW voice activation system I was playing with. Mimicking an English accent worked for that one!

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by danielbarla on Saturday August 01, 2020 @08:57AM (#24020110)
It has gotten better, I think; as a joke, I recently asked it "what is weather tomorrow" in the most horribly broken fake accent I could muster, and to my surprise, it correctly annotated the question and responded.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by probably_wrong on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:49AM (#24018864)
When I still had a Windows Phone, I couldn't use Cortana because my phone was set in an unsupported language and it wouldn't let me use Cortana in English - if I wanted to use it, I had to switch the entire interface to English.

I would have spoken to it in a foreign language if they had let me. Instead, I have no idea to this day what Cortana sounds like.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by mrweasel on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:33AM (#24018786)
European Portuguese? Does that mean they support Brazilian Portuguese better that actual Portuguese?
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by pjmlp on Saturday August 01, 2020 @05:45AM (#24019145)
Probably, if they support Portuguese at all.

That is a pet peeve that we have back home, because of market size, many US companies rather support Brazilian Portuguese than any of other variants.

European Portuguese gets left out due to market size, while African and Asian Portuguese get left out due to buying capabilites.

Thing is, having to speak to a device, in another language variant just feels weird, leaving out the little detail that one does need to learn the differences as well.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by viraptor on Saturday August 01, 2020 @08:37AM (#24020006)
TIL about Luso-Asians and Luso-Indians https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luso-Asians
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by carlob on Saturday August 01, 2020 @09:12AM (#24020196)
> actual Portuguese

would you consider British English the only actual English?

Not only Brazil has 20 times the population of Portugal, but there are considerations to be made about how languages evolve in the periphery, which might not apply to Portuguese, but certainly apply to Canadian French vs French French.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by pjmlp on Saturday August 01, 2020 @03:13PM (#24023099)
No and many English variants suffer the same problems of US English first.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by unixhero on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:53AM (#24018885)
Try having a foreign wife!
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by boring_twenties on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:30AM (#24018771)
I mean, it's not to make the device happy. It's to make the device do what you want, without you having to get up.

Respect though.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by pjmlp on Saturday August 01, 2020 @05:53AM (#24019195)
That only re-inforces the cycle of not providing Portuguese support.

Instead of paying for half working stuff and then complaying like many do here, I rather not give any money at all.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by dan1234 on Saturday August 01, 2020 @02:17AM (#24018121)
The only thing I regularly use Siri for is timers, where it’s genuinely quicker to say “15 minute timer” than it is to open the app.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by BuckRogers on Saturday August 01, 2020 @02:33AM (#24018205)
Same here. And Alexa (Amazon Cube) is really relegated to muting my TV, lowering/raising the volume, and turning TVs off. If I install some outdoor cameras I might use it to check the front door, back yard or (if I had a child) the baby room. As a Windows user I never found a use for Cortana.

Alexa is the only one that turned out remotely useful for me.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by aasasd on Saturday August 01, 2020 @03:15AM (#24018385)
I'd like to use the assistant on Android exactly for this, and probably a few other automation tasks. I love me some fiddling with semi-automated workflows. If only I wasn't averse to putting my voiceprint on Google's servers.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by implements on Saturday August 01, 2020 @07:55AM (#24019772)
In case you’re not aware you can use the Shortcuts app to automate Clock for a timer and put it on the home screen as an icon. Works for Safari and Open Links if you want a home web bookmark, too.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by chris_wot on Saturday August 01, 2020 @10:05AM (#24020494)
I use Siri to ask it to use Waze for directions to locations I want to drive to. Works incredibly well.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by Sharlin on Saturday August 01, 2020 @06:50AM (#24019438)
Agreed, although I’ve found force touch on the Control Center icon a nice shortcut as well.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by vladvasiliu on Saturday August 01, 2020 @08:51AM (#24020073)
Nice, I've learned something today...

However, when busy, it still feels faster to say "set timer for x minutes" with just a long press on the home button.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by SirHound on Saturday August 01, 2020 @05:22AM (#24019028)
It'd be useful in more if they were noticeably better today than when they were introduced. I wonder how much is down to intrinsic shortcomings with voice assistance and how much is just no one's made a good one.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by jdmichal on Sunday August 02, 2020 @10:17AM (#24028843)
IMO it's intrinsic shortcomings. These started coming out once the language processing got good enough to be reliable. And that part has continued advancing. But after you have that parsed instruction, what do you do with it? That's the part that's basically "AI hard" and is the real limiting factor. The "skills" approach routes around the problem by having exact keywords passed off to particular specialized handlers. But that means it can only ever do what it's been explicitly taught to do, and with explicit keywords.
Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by bartread on Saturday August 01, 2020 @03:34AM (#24018488)
> f I'm reading this correctly, they're basically saying "very few people really use this as a 'smart' speaker, so we'll just turn it into a normal Bluetooth speaker and move on." I'm not sure whether that says more about Cortana or about the smart speaker market, but it seems like an...ok compromise? Certainly better than just bricking the thing.

I tend to agree: I think switching it to a simple Bluetooth speaker is a reasonable way forward under the circumstances.

As a related aside this, along with a raft of other support withdrawals recently (the most recent that comes to mind is those smart glasses), I do feel somewhat vindicated in my policy to keep things as dumb as possible: speakers are just speakers, lightbulbs are just lightbulbs, my kettle is just a kettle, and - if I do need any smarts - I attach a general purpose computing device to provide them. E.g, it's just incredibly easy to connect my laptop or phone to my hi-fi via a DAC or audio interface to stream music over Spotify.

The point of this is that it means most of my household devices and appliances remain brick-proof, and I shouldn't have to keep replacing them every 3 - 5 years just because manufacturers stop supporting them.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by culturestate on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:07AM (#24018675)
> I do feel somewhat vindicated in my policy to keep things as dumb as possible

I have a similar but marginally more lax policy: I'm fine with smart devices as long as they don't have to phone home to operate and they have on-device controls.

For obviously Internet of Shit-worthy appliances (Cory Doctorow's smart toaster or whatever) I'll always choose the dumb version, and I make sure that I only use home automation stuff that's as widely interoperable as possible, but otherwise I don't particularly fuss about it as long as it meets all of my other requirements.

I think modularity is really key here. As long as you can replace or update each component individually without impacting the rest of it, you should be good.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by bartread on Saturday August 01, 2020 @04:19AM (#24018731)
> I think modularity is really key here. As long as you can replace or update each component individually without impacting the rest of it, you should be good.

That's exactly it: the ability to easily swap out components, and then high levels of interoperability. I think I perhaps didn't express myself so well because I'm broadly in agreement with you. It's the phone home aspect that often makes smart devices a problem.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by m463 on Saturday August 01, 2020 @02:41AM (#24018243)
> Certainly better than just bricking the thing.

I think we've seen a lot of backlash where companies treat their (disposable) products as disposable, and this is a good thing to see.

Also, companies like Harman Kardon have lifetime relationships with their customers.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by sp332 on Saturday August 01, 2020 @09:32AM (#24020308)
> they're ending support for the standalone Cortana apps, which makes sense

This is actually the hardest part for me to understand. They want me to drag a Win10 laptop everywhere to use the assistant instead of just using my phone?

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by jdmichal on Sunday August 02, 2020 @10:24AM (#24028879)
You mean your phone that has its own built-in, unswappable assistant? Since Windows Phone died[0], I can't blame them for getting out of a business where they are immediately outleveraged by the competition.

[0] I say this with lament, because it was IMO a legitimately good phone OS. My Lumia 920 is still my backup phone, 8 years later, because the ones I got after that died before replacement. But the death was certainly not a surprise. Once they started adding more features to Android apps than existed in the Windows Phone versions, the writing was on the wall about where the money was going.

Re:Upcoming changes to Cortana by culturestate on Saturday August 01, 2020 @10:44AM (#24020793)
They're adding it to the Teams and Outlook apps and pushing Cortana toward businesses.