But I know that in making that calculation, I personally couldn't give less of a shit about whether or not they released Half-Life 3, when they've been the patron saint of gaming on Linux. Which they haven't just barely saved from oblivion, but been the biggest single force in turning into an actual viable competitor.
I hope I don't need to explain why that matters for reasons that go beyond whether or not you are personally directly invested in gaming on Linux.
Their strongest recent competition (Epic) has not just been indifferent to gaming on Linux, they've actively done enormous damage to it: they've bought exclusive rights to popular mainstream games which fully supported Linux, and removed that support.
Though the picture is further complicated in that the other big competitor, GOG.com (run by CD Projekt, the Polish developers of the Witcher series), are easily the best citizens altogether, most importantly for their commitment to DRM-free distribution. But they also aren't the ones doing Proton.
The commitment is weaker than they want it to sound. They're selling quite a few games now that require an internet connection or a serial number in order for multiplayer to work, or even just to access some of the single-player gameplay.
Refusing to call something "DRM" doesn't mean you're DRM-free.
How else would online multiplayer work? I suppose there's the community-run server model, but you're asking vendors to potentially do some pretty major re-architecting.
GOG's games are entirely DRM-Free for single-player and local multiplayer. For experiences that are inherently tied to online services, the concept of DRM-Free ownership doesn't really work.
Right, because I said "multiplayer", obviously I meant "multiplayer over the internet".
Multiplayer would work by letting you connect however you want.
> you're asking vendors to potentially do some pretty major re-architecting.
From a game architecture perspective, there is no difference between connecting to someone else over the internet, and connecting to someone else over a LAN. As far as the networking stack is concerned, the difference is that in the second case, you're most likely using IP addresses that are reserved for non-internet use.
But wait, there's more!
> How else would online multiplayer work?
You could just... NOT require a registration when connecting to the internet. Remember what I said about requiring a serial number? Try thinking of a more iconic, prototypical example of DRM.
> GOG's games are entirely DRM-Free for single-player and local multiplayer.
No, they're not, this is just false.
Well, but you're assuming the server software is actually designed to be run on end-user PCs, and not some proprietary server architecture that also hooks into a bunch of other company stuff.
> You could just... NOT require a registration when connecting to the internet. Remember what I said about requiring a serial number? Try thinking of a more iconic, prototypical example of DRM.
So I guess the question here is, what is the purpose of buying DRM Free games?
To me, it's the knowledge that as long as I can find compatible hardware, I will always be able to run a game, no matter what external server somewhere someone decides to take down. This is very powerful, and it's the difference between truly owning an experience, and renting temporary access to one.
As long as an external server is required, all of that goes out the window. Any game that uses that model is inherently a rental. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, if the experience couldn't exist any other way. I buy tickets to movie theaters, and Broadway shows, and plenty of other "temporary" forms of entertainment.
If the multiplayer already requires an external server, what does it matter whether or not there's a serial number? To me, it makes absolutely no difference.
> No, they're not, this is just false.
What single player / local multiplayer games on GOG have DRM?
#1. This question is not asked in good faith; games purposefully include centralized internet multiplayer, while not including local multiplayer, and this is itself a form of DRM.
#2. Northgard applies DRM even to single-player modes. You cannot use them without simultaneously connecting through the Steam^W GOG client.
I'm not seeing anything about this in reviews or elsewhere on Google? The GOG page itself states:
> Please note: The GOG Galaxy Client is required to access online features for Northgard.
But, offline singleplayer seems to work fine by all accounts. I'm actually a bit tempted to buy the game to verify absolutely.
https://www.gog.com/forum/northgard/warning_gog_galaxy_is_re...
So no, offline singleplayer is not working fine by all accounts, it is not intended to work at all, and this was fine with GOG when they reviewed the game. (If you start the game, you will see the message "You need to log in through GOG to access Conquest" displayed in a tooltip over its grayed-out button. It's not something you could actually miss, if you were reviewing the game.)
Did you really think I was just making this up?
I think you're conflating issues, if you give allow the community to run servers, you don't have on-going costs for multi-player (besides the discovery service, but you can make that free too).
Failing to see the problem here.
I think the parent made a mental jump here: the problem is when multiplayer needs a particular endpoint on the internet, and when that endpoint is unreachable (firewall, bad connection, product discontinued), then multiplayer is broken.
Define some, can you not play the full game if you're entirely offline if not either don't buy the game, or what's the problem?
Here, Northgard removes single-player functionality unless it can check on you: https://www.gog.com/game/northgard
> either don't buy the game, or what's the problem?
Well, the problem would be selling a heavily DRMed game while claiming to be DRM-free.
Well this suggests it's a bug, at least.
Epic could certainly be described as anti-linux, for the reasons you've described. On the other hand they have invested quite a bit into open source cross platform projects Godot being a good example.
Valve have made huge amounts of money from gambling but have been tremendous in pushing Linux as a viable gaming platform.
CD Projekt are staunchly DRM free which is fantastic, and offer support for Linux releases on their store, but they are dragging their heels on full Linux support with GoG Galaxy, and talk condescendingly about Linux users with regards to their games Witcher 3 and more recently Cyber Punk 2077.
Judging by their actions I would still pick Valve ahead of the other two as the best for Linux as a modern desktop OS.
They pushed publishers to develop linux ports, they hired developers, they created a linux gaming distribution (steamos and the "failed" steamos console) and do their own research and development like ACO [0].
Proton in the end is "only" wine bundled with a good patchset and preinstalled debendencies, but even in the beginning you could get a good gaming experience out of the box that you only got through manual patching and tuning with wine.
[0] https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/16409152...
I agree that steamos hasn't been a big success in the market, but I'm pretty sure Valve intended it as negotiating leverage - BATNA [1] - when Microsoft came out with Windows Store.
So long as Microsoft isn't declaring "No app stores except ours" or "30% cut of sales to us, no exceptions" steamos has been a success from Valve's point of view :)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...
Tbh I even got a wrapper script to try games with proton when they don't run well with wine just to see if it works any better and the wrapper is mostly setting environment variables and reading paths.
Both! They gained the advantage of 20 years of work on Wine before they started distributing it. Now they're continuing to push Wine forward by funding further development. Most work on Proton is sent to upstream Wine first, and is then merged back into Proton. All of this is visible in the public repositories.
This is exactly how open source should work :) Valve's Linux team are good open source citizens, you can rest easy.
This model was brought to Valves free to play release DOTA2, where it further cemented the concept in the public awareness.
PCGamer [1] puts "ZT Online", a Chinese MMO, as starting the lootbox trend in 2006.
[0]: Albeit, this is all coming from my experiences on the Global MapleStory servers. The Korean ones could have been different
Here’s an article written on the game in 2007: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/161383/the-dark-side-of...
[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/yanis-varoufakis-valve-game-...
I'm really hoping GOG will one day provide a Linux client with Proton inside.
Valve's argument, which is significantly different than something like overwatch seems to be that content like hats and weapon models and skins has value, and when it's given away there's less incentive for creators to make things, which results in less things being available for players to enjoy and people who make things getting less money. A similar thought led to the introduction of the paid mods store for example. While that was extremely unpopular, there are a couple game mods for sale on the steam store2[2], and there are Patreon game modders[3].
Of course Valve's dog in this race is that they can and have made boatloads of cash in doing so[4], where in their ideal situation users make content and other users pay for it, and they just collect a fee on top for providing a platform.
[1]https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/category/valveconomics
[2]https://store.steampowered.com/app/280740/Aperture_Tag_The_P...
[3]https://www.patreon.com/JulioNIB
[4]https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/08/how-and-why-team-for...
I thought they actually started offering them as of recently?
But regardless, you can see why refunds are much harder for GoG—it goes part-in-parcel with being DRM-Free. Valve can remove games from your account and render (most of) them impossible to play. GoG, by contrast, can't really "take back" a DRM-Free executable once you've downloaded it.
Even before Steam allowed refunds, GoG had a 30-day no-questions-asked exchange policy for any game you'd purchased but hadn't actually downloaded. Sadly, this isn't particularly useful, but it's also the one situation where GoG can actually "reclaim" the returned item.
Indeed they do. Support will try to give you credit instead so you need to be insistent on getting your actual money back.
I'm not sure which location you're talking about where this doesn't apply.
At first you could just buy item sets, which I didn't bother with, but you could also buy tickets to pro games, which I enjoyed and sometimes you'd get a bonus item. Also, the sets were made by third parties, and they'd get a cut of the sales. Also, all the gear could be sold on the Steam Market (generally for pennies though..).
Eventually this morphed into you could only 'gamble' for the sets by buying loot boxes which was a big step down, but there was still the option to buy from someone on the Steam Marketplace - so at least that was an option.
Overall, I found Valve's lootbox implementation the best as you could sell and buy on the Marketplace, but I preferred the original way where I could just buy a character set that I wanted.
This is a far better standard than pay2win models that require payement to level up or skip time consuming actions.
People who pay look cool, but people who can't afford still get to win using their skills.
There's actually the toxic culture revolving around cosmetic upgrades in games, where using the default skins is considered a sign of poverty, and leads to discrimination among groups of young people. Fortnite is one of the games where this issue is more prominent.
A lot of that is driven by "default" culture. They joke about it between themselves and use the terms to call each other names jokingly, who knows what they're calling others online.
As a and parent in my 30s I despise Fornite as a game and the culture it's creating with young children and the money it has them spending on a cosmetic candy cane or whatever it is this week.
But I totally recall that my parents in theirs 30's were desperate that I requested to wear mostly "surfers's brand clothing" which was the big hype when I was a teenager.
Peer pressure is a thing, videogame is one way to express it, but I don't think it's the root cause.
At least with clothing, you're getting clothing out if it (though frankly I prefer the system of my high school which was to have a uniform; evens the playing field, particularly for me as a working class child at a grammar school in an upper class area).
My issue with Fornite is the speed and cost with which they produce this stuff. I see my nephews spending 10s of £s at a time every week or so.
I'm not sure how I'll deal with the peer pressure issue, my child is too young right now, but Fornite has a strong affinity to children, I'd argue it's mostly played by children and the culture is a real issue which they're doing nothing to resolve that I can see.
Being the only brownish person in a very white middle and upper class grammar school in a very white part of England at the time _was_ something to be picked out on.
Electronic communications & transactions enable theses mechanics to happen faster & without schedule constraints if left unchecked. Same as for bullying by the way.
As far as social interaction goes we live in uncharted territory. Does it necessarily mean that it's bad? On the other side of the spectrum this enable YouthForClimate, BLM, and things yet to come...
It's really hard to analyze thing as they happen, this is not new either ;)
PS: Also not spoiling you kid seems like a good old advice still standing!
So, I can only assume this culture arises in specific games, not out of cosmetic microtransactions in general.
Which is not to say I think cosmetic microtransactions are a good thing. Just that they're not by necessity as bad as some in this thread are making them out to be.
They're so into the YouTube culture they recently requested (and received) RGB keyboards and accessories to adorn their desks even though they're gaming on consoles.
From reading the comments, it seems like Fortnite players make fun of each other for not having skins, thus people are pressured into buying them. I am guessing that because the game has so much downtime, there really isn't anything else to do.
Whether free2play is more or less discriminating than DRM AAA titles with price starting at 12x the price of an optional pass is a whole other real question.
Regulation of virtual goods economics market will be an important debate. But most people don't even know about these huge markets, let alone politicians.
One key point is that current copyright laws are totally inadequate to latest technologies. Company can build empire based on copyrighted material in a heartbeat while decades are needed before anything enter to the public domain. So much energy is wasted fighting legal roadblock instead of innovating on previous concepts...
At least with pay-to-win you know that it's a sham and that it's only the amount of money that you spend which influences how good you are at the game (more or less).
With cosmetics and appearances it's much more stealthy since you're still a good player if you win, but there is peer pressure to pay for a skin so you can keep up with the latest fashions. You could easily spend more and more money this way before realising what a sham it is, and all you'd have to show for it is maybe a full digital wardrobe of stuff you never wear. (With no way to sell that to recoup even some of the costs).
Thats not quite true w.r.t. loot boxes. Several EU and Asian countries have already classified them as gambling and regulated them as such. I believe EA's Fifa soccer was pulled from several countries because of this.
Stephenson's notion that in a future with ubiquitous VR there would be well-paid artists who crafted detailed, posh avatars for the well-off might just come true. I always thought it pretty far-fetched: sure, people are vain but they wouldn't be that vain. It appears I couldn't have been more wrong...
ß: We already have the mafia issuing extortion bonds. (ref: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-09/there-...)
Does it hurt the people who waste huge amount of money, who further develop bad economic habits and potentially harm their loved ones (their parents or god forbid their kids)? No.
Does it hurt regular consumers that want to buy the item they want instead of gambling for it? No.
Does it hurt a large abstract entity that doesn't get to maximize their profits? I guess it would! (Epic has grown from a few hundred million company in the early 2010s to an almost 20 billion company in mid 2020, literally all of it based on Fortnite which only brings money through these microtransactions)
So you're arguing for a business model that is not beneficial to any consumer, that decreases net happiness, all in the name of "freedom".
There are a million other things we don't allow because if we let people take personal responsibility for them they consistently fuck up. It's the exact same situation with a lot of softer drugs.
Not to mention that they break immersion in the game too, Call of Duty Modern Warfare started off last year as a slick game with mostly realistic skins and characters, now it's full of pink anime guns, colourful tracksuits and even a Hyena...
Was kind of a meta-game, but yes definitively paved the way for virtual goods stock market. Some social science researcher should totally investigate that (if not already done).
Example of an exchange: https://backpack.tf/
Edit: Lot apparently they also suffer from economic crash sometimes like with bitcoin https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-07-26-team-fortress-...
I mean, not quite a social scientist, but they hired varoufakis at the time to study the economics of the loot boxes among other things. Here are some of the articles about it from his website.
I've been working to articulate why I think this has actually made Steam's the worst, and possibly the most nefarious.
Up front disclosure: I directly blame the Steam Marketplace for putting my account at high risk of hostile takeover (to the point I've seen evidence of a botnet cracking my password in unbelievable time), for what I believe to be the dumbest reason imaginable. (A TF2 hat I use if I play TF2 that was a pre-order exclusive of an unrelated game.)
The Marketplace seems to only push whales towards further over-spending with dreams of exotic arbitrage of their randomly gambled loot box items.
The Marketplace allows Valve to directly double (and triple and more) dip on the costs of items through Marketplace fees. Whether a whale decides to drop everything on loot box rolls or trawling the Marketplace for "deals" or any sort of would be arbitrage in between (including account hijacking, trade phishing, etc), Valve still gets their cut.
(If there's a specific over indulgence to point to, other than Steam sales in general, as to why Valve is so fat and sated and not hungry enough to develop more games for themselves, I'd argue that Marketplace fees seems an obvious one.)
Even beyond the impacts on whale and thief psychology, you yourself demonstrate why the Marketplace is more nefarious than most of the rest of loot box schemes: the option to sell what you don't want and to buy exactly what you want makes the whole thing seem friendlier. Under the hood the dynamics are the exact same: random lotteries/slot machines create artificial scarcity of digital goods and an illusion of value. In turn the Marketplace, despite and because of most aspirations for arbitrage, serves only prop up and exacerbate that artificial scarcity. Even worse, that Market puts a real money price tag on items. Sure, most of those items are truly micro-transactions at pennies apiece, but there's just enough rare items (because of course there is) that the worm gets into your head that maybe if you gamble on that $1 loot box you'll get a $30 item you could sell to pay for half your next game.
One final reason I think to mention about how nefarious Steam's Marketplace is for gaming: by having the loot box slot machines placed so near to the cashier Marketplace, Valve absolutely is playing the most dangerous game of just about anyone in threatening a Pinball Prohibition-style gambling law crackdown on videogames.
They are still lacking effort in marketing of Linux gaming, but their technical backing is really great.
This is definitely not true. There are DRMed games in their store right now. Yes, at the same time the homepage says "We are GOG.COM, the DRM-free home for a curated selection of games."
Seems to me freedom of choice isn't just about selecting between good decisions, but having the right to make bad ones. Freedom isn't merely the choice between 'Fresh Stripe' toothpaste and 'Total Whitening' toothpaste - it's having the choice to go without even though it's dumb to have your teeth fall out.
Any society willing to ban lootboxes for informed, consenting, mentally competent adults would have no problem with banning porn and smoking and drinking too much and bicycling without a helmet by following the same logic.
There are steps you could take short of a total ban, of course - as we do for other vices.
Yup, there are strict regulations with regard to gambling because of its addictive nature and, let's not kid ourselves, loot boxes are an uncomfortably close analogue of gambling. I would be very much okay with putting lootbox, particularly gacha games, under similar heavy regulation.
This includes hard drugs (smoking and alcohol get a pass primarily due to a pre-existing legacy userbase and industry, but they wouldn't even sort of get that today, anywhere, in a fresh slate, especially nicotine), unsafe practices on the road (such as not wearing a seat belt), and indeed porn where consent is not explicit and informed (revenge porn and child abuse).
And you'll note a lot of economic practices are banned in the Land Of The Free(tm), Ponzi schemes being a good example. Is this unreasonable? If you're a libertarian you might argue it is, but most people think it's a perfectly fine thing to ban.
Not saying you're wrong (although I personally would like to see some of the more exploitative practices in the games industry banned), but you are way off.
It's also not a model that has disappeared or anything. Not just in the MMO space where there are plenty that may or may not be free-to-start but claim their primary financial driver is expansion packs. Overwatch is sort of based on that model, but always had loot boxes. Destiny was based on that model, but always had micro-transactions. Destiny 2 is now free-to-start, and again that line is really blurry between F2P micro-transactions and "expansion pack business model".
I recall there being other micro-transactions for cosmetics in Guild Wars 1 as well, across its early lifespan, but of course, it certainly was not quite to the degree of Guild Wars 2's "Gem Shop".
(ETA: You don't have to take my word for it. It was called "DirectSong": https://guildwars.fandom.com/wiki/DirectSong)
Windows for home users is also "free" and ruling the world.
But still today RS3 is riddled with MTX while you also have to pay a membership fee.
I used to play condition zero (counter strike) when I was 11-12 at the same time learning frontpage and photoshop. I used to switch between them when I got tired of one.
My brother who's 14 now, is totally addicted to CSGO and the skins / box system is totally ruining the game IMO, one streamer buys a skin and all of a sudden its on fire. Gameplay is almost second now.
I've heard of people committing suicide when valve locks accounts of high value.
I never really got into half life, after cracking halo on pc with a keygen (my first every multiplayer online) and playing one game, I was hooked. But never to the peripheral stuff. Just the game itself.
The redeeming thing with Pokemon was that when you spent money back then you knew exactly how much you spent and you couldn't spend more than your allowance.
Another redeeming thing was that with Pokemon you actually had a physical object that you could also trade with your friends.
By any means I'm not trying to defend Pokemon, but wanted to show that this is much worse.
Me. A pack of Pokemon cards is a tangible investment. As are, as far as I understand them, "loot boxes." The trading value may be probabilistic, but it's not quite the same as making a financial bet as in the stock market, lottery, traditional casino "gambling"
It used to be that you'd get toys with McDonald's happy meals. I believe the toy you'd end up with was also a matter of probability. There was also a candy phenomenon in the late 90s/early 00s called the "Wonder Ball." The commercials, imploring you to consider "What's in the Wonder Ball?" Also probabilistic. I wouldn't say either of these examples is gambling.
At this point it seems appropriate to mention that it actually doesn't matter whether something qualifies is "gambling" or not. It matters only to the extent that in 2020 people are fixated on labeling things, as if the word we've crafted to describe something is itself meaningful. These words tend to be trendy and suitable for e-propagation on Twitter words like "incel" or "autistic." Or "That's gambling! #gambling-bad"
There are lots of dumb things people can invest in. And investing in dumb things has gotten easier. That doesn't mean every purchase with a probabilistic value on the market is gambling, or that "gambling bad" and "not-gambling good."
Loot boxes are purely "luck" based gambling, where your "luck" is dynamically altered based on how much the operators are get you addicted. Including occasional "free" rewards to encourage you to buy more with actual money.
Also, the matchmaking system is utterly broken. It's insane that half of my games are plagued with at least one low-level steam account with a player that's totalling 400 hours and dropping 35 kills in a game. Also, being LE and queuing up against MGE that instantly headshot you while jump shooting feels sad.
Considering CS:GO has 500,000 to 800,000 concurrent players at any time, I find it difficult for the system to create such unbalanced and flawed games.
[0]https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/vacnet-csgo/ [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnRgW54EWwA [2]https://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/
Same goes for griefers and ragers, they're assigned a low "Trust Factor" so that they play together, leaving other more serious players play together.
Do you know of any other game at that magnitude that doesn't have cheaters? I'll wait.
Could you supply a glossary? I'm trying to follow this discussion.
Matchmaking is supposed to be done in a way where you should not meet people that are way lower or way higher than your rank. But since it's a team game, it takes into account the average level of the team. I won't go into too much detail but it's definitely not uncommon to meet teams that are a complete mix of random ranks and for some reason a guy that's supposed to be much weaker than the rest top frags everyone.
It's a really complex system, as a few months ago Valve introduced the Trust Factor, an index which, through machine learning, supposedly puts cheaters in an alternate queue. It takes into account multiple elements, such as your account age, how much you've spent, how much you play, with how many people, how many people report you, etc, etc. Sometimes it works wonderfully. I get to play with people that are nice, have great game sense and communication, and I'm having a blast. Then I get queued with ragers, team killers, it's super annoying.
Just last night I played two games. The first one was really good, then we got absolutely obliterated by a guy who had the most perfect angles, timings, speed, you name it. I checked his steam account and saw he was level 4 (you can level your steam account through using the service) and had 450 hours in the game.
Now I'm not saying that I'm the best there is. But I've clocked close to 3,000 hours, and I've played on the three major platforms (Valve MM, Faceit and ESEA) for years. I have a 11 years steam account with 250 games on it, and in 5 years I must have had maybe 3 penalties caused by my internet crashing. So I'm confident my Trust Factor is good. Then again I get queued with and against cheaters constantly. It's just super annoying, especially considering the fact that a game typically lasts 45 minutes to an hour, and with a 3 years old at home, I can crank one, maybe two games a day at most.
The lack of communication from Valve over the years has really done them in IMO.
I wouldn't know because epic's client can't even run on Linux.
Although I also blame the gaming community as a whole for collectively rejecting the subscription model for games, which made the much more exploitative f2p + microtransaction/lootbox business model the only real viable option for games that require ongoing development.