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Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by dan-robertson on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:06AM (#23732254)
A counter argument I see sometimes is that the reason Americans spend more on healthcare compared to other rich countries is that American consumers spend more on just about everything than most other rich countries (and also earn more money). I don’t really know how much merit the argument has.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by standardUser on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:16AM (#23732322)
And as a result we have bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger TVs.... but worse healthcare outcomes? Seems like some of that excess spending yields us more returns than others.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by quadrifoliate on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:44AM (#23732538)
The things you mentioned are almost all inversely related to better healthcare outcomes, to grossly oversimplify a contributing factor.

* Bigger homes means you feel more comfortable being lazy and spending all your time indoors

* Bigger cars means you are incentivized to drive 20 miles to a restaurant in comfort instead of walking over to a closer one

* Bigger TVs means you spend all day "watching the game" instead of going out and playing a sport.

Once again, these are grossly oversimplified, but should drive home the central point that spending on some things can actually worsen outcomes of others.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by epistasis on Saturday July 04, 2020 @11:07AM (#23732741)
> Bigger cars means you are incentivized to drive 20 miles to a restaurant in comfort instead of walking over to a closer one

For many (most?) people in the US, the idea of walking anywhere of consequence from their home is simply ludicrous. Restaurant, convenience store, grocery store, all are completely inaccessible except by car.

Suburb planning has explicitly disallowed that sort of living for most people. It has also made it nearly impossible to serve neighborhoods with any sort of reasonable public transit.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by vishnugupta on Saturday July 04, 2020 @11:30AM (#23732917)
> Restaurant, convenience store, grocery store, all are completely inaccessible except by car.

This particular aspect of USA struck me as quite bizarre whenever I visited on business trips. More so as I’m from India where it’s almost a given that things that you need on a day to day basis (grocery, bakery, pharmacy, convenience store etc.,) are available within walking distance. Apart from an opportunity to get some fresh air it’s also a good way to interact with my neighborhood community.

I assumed this is how it’d be in any developed country until I moved to Netherlands. It’s not too different from India at all in that respect here.

So now I wonder, what factors lead to that kind of city planning in US. It was a real ordeal for me to get a meal outside in US, had to either walk for an hour or order taxi service (those were pre-Uber days).

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by lotsofpulp on Saturday July 04, 2020 @02:57PM (#23734179)
> So now I wonder, what factors lead to that kind of city planning in US.

A car requirement (and hence minimum fuel purchasing requirement) helps keep lower socioeconomic classes out of higher socioeconomic classes’ neighborhoods. This results in marked improvements in economic performance of children in school, as the public school students are determined by the area they are in, and spacing things out results in a populace with a minimum level of financial security who can afford to travel further.

The original impetus may not have been exactly that, as people generally like their space anyway, but it’s affects are well known. Historically, I’m sure there was also a racial component to it, with white people moving to more expensive areas that non white people couldn’t afford.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by rgblambda on Saturday July 04, 2020 @12:02PM (#23733152)
Initially U.S cities were built according to a grid plan (grids being the most efficient means of urban planning at the time). This also made public transport easier. Grids however do not work well for cars. In response to increasing car ownership, T junctions were introduced to improve flow of traffic. The car also made it possible for people to live far from their place of work, thus the popularisation of suburbs. Other countries followed suit.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by adjkant on Saturday July 04, 2020 @01:30PM (#23733671)
> Other countries followed suit.

What other countries? The US is very much an outlier. The only one I can think of is maybe Australia?

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by rgblambda on Saturday July 11, 2020 @07:25AM (#23801261)
The UK and Republic of Ireland.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by ezconnect on Saturday July 04, 2020 @12:51PM (#23733451)
The way the country is designed you really need to drive to buy a simple thing.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by FpUser on Saturday July 04, 2020 @11:28AM (#23732900)
* Bigger homes means you feel more comfortable being lazy and spending all your time indoors

I call BS on that. Accordingly to this logic homeless must be the healthiest people. That aside, rich people (who also happen to have bigger houses) actually exercise more than the poor.

* Bigger cars means you are incentivized to drive 20 miles to a restaurant in comfort instead of walking over to a closer one

You telling that person with the smaller car would rather walk to the store (often VERY long walk in the US)? I call another BS here.

* Bigger TVs means you spend all day "watching the game" instead of going out and playing a sport.

Same argument as for size of the houses. I think you pulled these arguments right out of the place where the sun does not shine.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by dan-robertson on Saturday July 04, 2020 @02:45PM (#23734110)
I think this is a reasonable criticism. The post you’re replying to appeals to common sense but I don’t see much reason to believe it would be borne out by facts
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by mistersquid on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:52AM (#23732612)
> And as a result we have bigger homes, bigger cars, bigger TVs.... but worse healthcare outcomes?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but maybe "bigger $things" and "worse outcome" are on the same side of the graph.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by tonyedgecombe on Saturday July 04, 2020 @02:14PM (#23733933)
America spends 18% of GDP on healthcare, in the UK its about 9%. Arguably the UK could do with spending more but right now we get broadly similar outcomes for half the spending.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by evanpw on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:26AM (#23732397)
Here's a long data analysis making that argument: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-o....
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by readthenotes on Saturday July 04, 2020 @02:58PM (#23734185)
What I got from that is that Americans are price-gouged more.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by momokoko on Saturday July 04, 2020 @11:32AM (#23732934)
Or even more simply a stronger currency valuation.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by grecy on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:17AM (#23732336)
> American consumers spend more on just about everything than most other rich countries

Do you have a source for that?

In my experience living and working in a slew of countries around the world, the USA has the cheapest alcohol, cigarettes, cars, electricity, clothing, electronics, gas (and diesel), food at the supermarket, food at the restaurant and many other things of any developed country.

Because taxes are so low, stuff in America is extremely cheap compared to countries with tax-funded healthcare, higher education, etc.

Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by dan-robertson on Saturday July 04, 2020 @11:23AM (#23732855)
I’m not saying things are more expensive but that the total spent is more. What do you think Americans do with their relatively higher incomes? Evidence would suggest that for the most part they aren’t just putting the difference straight into their savings accounts.
Re:Which firms profit most from America’s health-care system... by grecy on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:58PM (#23749832)
They're spending it on healthcare, and education for starters.

But mostly they're buying the stuff I talked about above. Consumerism.