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Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by alcoholic_byte on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @11:57PM (#23559677)
Well. The principle of Linux was and still is to give tools and have users use them. It gets out of the users way to use them. One can always use firejail or other sandboxing solutions to do that. Chrome itself is a security nightmare, always with the mic on and listening. Microsoft and Apple also have CVEs unattended. Binary checks before starting a program? Why I have a package-manager that does the checks. Untrusted binaries are ususally installed with local user rights in a seperate path or best, not run at all(never needed to turn to some website offering tools since moving to linux aeons ago). Not all distros use Flatpack or Snap, and I hope it remains that way regardless of how fiercely Canonical is pushing for it. Granted, the out of the box security provided by Linux as a Desktop OS is behind the Windows/MacOS one;Only think of the non-existing firewall rules on a fresh Ubuntu installation. But I think that is ok, because installing Linux is a conscious decision, unlike using a preinstalled Windows or MacOS. So, if you do that move from one OS over to another, the user should read up and not expect the community to hold their hands without asking questions.

Not everything is perfect, yes moving the toolchain would be nice, but then again, most a community run projects, so the user needs to know about locking their basement as well. Hence the audience is/should be more technical minded anyways.

IMHO another post about comparing apples and oranges leaving out second-level effects. Just an example: Looking for CVE-entries https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=MacOS , https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Linux , https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Windows . We see that MacOS has the fewest and Windows the most CVEs. (So it doesn't matter that Microsoft closes the CVEs quickly and Debian might take some time (haven't really run metrics on that one), there is a huge attack-surface on Windows, compared to Linux and new once have to pop up all the time :D) That isn't looking into severity, because a chaining of medium CVEs might also lead to a compromise as well ,and not everything requires system or root. User might be fine as well. I see a reflection of favoured OS. Only few people use MacOS (some artists, companies streamlining their assets for maintenance and rent,etc.). Windows, on the other hand, was always the big dog on the desktop market. Naturally, maleware authors focus on the biggest market.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by cwyers on Thursday June 18, 2020 @12:23AM (#23559783)
> The principle of Linux was and still is to give tools and have users use them.

A circular saw is a tool, one without a handguard is a bad tool even if it cuts wood well.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by twothamendment on Thursday June 18, 2020 @12:38AM (#23559840)
I found that a 14" circular saw with the guard removed was a great tool. It demanded a lot of respect - much like some tools in Linux.

./run-saw --yes-without-the-guard

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by blaser-waffle on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:10AM (#23563776)
It sounds like a good idea until you lose a least (or most) significant digit
Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by j88439h84 on Thursday June 18, 2020 @01:56AM (#23560186)
Extremely well said.
Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by tsimionescu on Thursday June 18, 2020 @03:57AM (#23560826)
While I think you are right to some extent, articles like the parent's are mostly aimed at people claiming 'Linux Desktop is actually better for grandma'. The reality is that grandma is going to be better protected while running Windows or MacOS or Chrome OS. If she's running Linux, she is wide open.

Also, some of the most common practices on Linux that are claimed to be superior from a security standpoint are just bad. For example, the package manager is very nice, but when you want to install anything that is not in the official repos, your options get just as bad as windows, or worse, despite what many people think. A common recommendation in advanced projects is to add their apt/yum repo to your system, which is not only equivalent to downloading stuff off the internet, it is also you registering them as trusted to deliver updates to your system forever. On Windows, you at least have some anti-virus tool scanning for known malware, so you still have a small chance that you won't be allowed to run some well known malware from years ago.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by blaser-waffle on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:22AM (#23563921)
> The reality is that grandma is going to be better protected while running Windows or MacOS or Chrome OS. If she's running Linux, she is wide open.

Strongly disagree. The linux desktop has something like 1% of the marketshare and is far from the lowest hanging fruit. And basic, sane security defaults are plenty good for simple web browsing and emailing.

My grandma used to get calls 2-3 times a month from "Microsoft" and "Comcast" trying to get her to download team viewer and cough up some passwords to Windows 8. She eventually got phished by downloading something dumb via email. I put her on the Ubuntus, with some tweaks, and she's doing fine. 10/10 would do it again.

> For example, the package manager is very nice, but when you want to install anything that is not in the official repos, your options get just as bad as windows, or worse

Grandma ain't installing Steam or an obscure 3rd party metasploit framework -- standard Ubanto repos are fine. She doesn't need rpmfusion to access Office365 emails.

> On Windows, you at least have some anti-virus tool scanning for known malware

Clam-AV is a thing in Linux and works fine -- we used it on mail relays a while back and had decent results. If you're putting trust in the default MS virus protection you're naive.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by lifty on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:24AM (#23560986)
The external provided software repos are one thing I find superior on Linux, compared to macOS and Windows. It gives you an OS managed way to do updates to 3rd party providers, as opposed to each app shipping their own update code, many times running as a background daemon. On macOS, the situation for apps outside of the app store is a ghetto. Not sure about Windows as I don’t use it often, but I suspect it’s similar to macOS.
Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by tsimionescu on Thursday June 18, 2020 @07:48AM (#23562146)
Sure, it has advantages, but it is less secure than downloading a binary, since you can check if the binary is downloading stuff off the internet or not, while the repo could be benign today, but malign tomorrow when the company hosting it gets bought, for example.

Also, from what I've seen, custom updaters are still the most common way of delivering updates for Linux outside the distribution-maintained official repo, as most people ship software for many distributions, and maintaining one repo per distribution quickly gets annoying. Ironically, this wouldn't be a problem on Windows or MacOS, if they decided to include a package manager with support for custom repos (the app stores allow side-loading, but do not allow custom upstream, as far as I know).

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by nonick on Thursday June 18, 2020 @02:08AM (#23560240)
> Chrome itself is a security nightmare, always with the mic on and listening

I can understand the mic being always on as a privacy nightmare, but how is this a security nightmare?

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by alcoholic_byte on Tuesday June 30, 2020 @02:39PM (#23693280)
As the other guys said. And it is not just that. Chrome is, considering it's architecture and purpose, a minion in a botnet, working for google to harvest data. They even got a lawsuit pending because they were even tracking users in privacy mode. This stuff cannot happen with IE, or FF. Brave, Vivaldi, I dunno, don't use them, but I am weary that they are using the same rendering-engine (and soon Redmond as well) (well depends where the G-men(what a pun) put their mischiveous code in). Because it is a pipedream to expect a privacy-compatible product from a company that build it's empire on mining the users data to the bit.
Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by atq2119 on Thursday June 18, 2020 @02:57AM (#23560494)
Lack of privacy is lack of security. This is true even if you're only interested in "hard" security concerns. For example, consider that keystrokes can be reconstructed from audio, which means that being able to record from your mic means being able to gather your passwords.
Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by pjmlp on Thursday June 18, 2020 @02:25AM (#23560337)
Which is why 98% of the desktop and mobile users don't care about Linux.

That is the price to pay when only technical minded users are the target group.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by izacus on Thursday June 18, 2020 @03:49AM (#23560778)
And that's ok, there's nothing wrong with tools being specialised for certain small markets. It makes them significantly better for those people than being forced to use a ill fitting tool for someone else.

Consolidation and lack of competition makes for a worse experience.

Re:State of Linux Desktop Security by pjmlp on Thursday June 18, 2020 @03:56AM (#23560820)
I really don't see what better experience does having all of this https://distrowatch.com/ for those 2% provides.