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Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by JMTQp8lwXL on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:24PM (#23410260)
It probably isn't worthwhile to litigate against Section 8 voucher recipients. Not much in terms of assets to recover for your monetary damages.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by inetknght on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:26PM (#23410280)
Litigate against the tenant? You're probably right. But insurance? Maybe.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sky_rw on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:41PM (#23410456)
Every time I see comments like this, and no direct offense intended, It always strikes me as coming from somebody who has never filed large insurance claims before. Been seeing this so much with riots lately, "oh you have insurance right, why you mad about your business getting destroyed?". If only it was that simple.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by CivBase on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:47PM (#23411422)
Watching Louis Rossman's videos on insurance recently has given me a whole new perspective on the subject. It's amazing just how much they get away with.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by jjeaff on Thursday June 04, 2020 @12:12AM (#23412326)
I've seen a lot of shady insurance practices of trying to get out of paying claims, but that "pandemic insurance won't pay for coronavirus because sars-covid2 is not specifically mentioned in the policy" takes the cake. The policy actually specifically says that it covers "flu and sars and other types of coronaviruses".

The fact that they are trying to waste people's time and money to litigate that out where they most certainly will not win is just unconscionable.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by giancarlostoro on Thursday June 04, 2020 @03:34AM (#23413730)
Have not seen those yet but this should be a friendly reminder that insurance companies jobs are literally to do everything they possibly can to not pay you any damages or the least amount in damages. They are after all for profit organizations so whatever they can do to keep as much cash as possible is the goal.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by virmundi on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:04PM (#23410673)
Depends on the insurer too. Riots might not be covered. Neither was pandemic. Sucks to be a small business right now. Anyone got first hand experience with SBA loans?
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by stx on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:04PM (#23411137)
Travel insurance did not cover my 2 week vacation I had planned in Florida in May. They would only cover it if I or a family member who was traveling with me was sick. I count myself lucky to have a job that I can do from home. Others have it way worse right now.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by uoaei on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:56PM (#23411070)
If riots aren't covered in cities and neighborhoods with historical precedent of civil unrest, I don't think that's anyone's fault but the policy provider's.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sokoloff on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:17PM (#23411232)
Why the provider and not the purchaser who chose that insurance? It’s spelled out in the contract what you’re buying (and paying for).
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by uoaei on Thursday June 04, 2020 @01:00AM (#23412614)
"If riots aren't covered" the clause won't be in any contract to begin with.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sokoloff on Thursday June 04, 2020 @08:26AM (#23415686)
I think that's generally false. Policies are generally written to cover a broad set of risks (which would include riots, terrorism, and acts of war) and then have exceptions listed specifically. It would be rare in my experience for property insurance to itemize the types of losses they cover.

As an example, my policy covers general losses arising from physical damage, but then explicitly excludes losses from earthquakes, floods, oil spills, and acts of war.

If I buy only that coverage and a flood or earthquake damages my property, it's not my insurance company's fault that I'm not covered.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by uoaei on Thursday June 04, 2020 @01:36PM (#23419447)
What I'm saying is obviously true. What you seem to be concerned about is that you think the premise is false. If that is so, you haven't really communicated that...
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sokoloff on Thursday June 04, 2020 @03:11PM (#23420562)
If an insurance policy covers all physical damage perils and riots are not mentioned as an exclusion, then riots are covered. It's not like physical damage coverage itemizes every possible source of damage and those that aren't listed aren't covered.

I'm literally not understanding your claim, so it seems like we are indeed having significant difficulty communicating. Because of the way contracts are written, I think your claim is pretty close to obviously false.

Concretely: if riots are not covered, it is overwhelmingly likely that the contract will be structured as "physical damages are covered except as listed below" listed below: "riots are not covered"

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by uoaei on Thursday June 04, 2020 @03:45PM (#23420910)
If riots are not covered then they are not covered. It's as simple as that.

I'm just saying you're making a whole lot of points without actually addressing the literal contents of my message, which would make this conversation much smoother because otherwise we are speaking past each other.

It looks like that presumption is wrong because riots will be covered under the umbrella of "physical damage" but you haven't really explicitly made that point by addressing mine, so it's hard to move forward with you to a productive conversation.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sokoloff on Thursday June 04, 2020 @04:41PM (#23421493)
Yes, if riots are not covered, they're not covered, but that will generally be obvious to the purchaser of the insurance (specifically by virtue of a clause about riots being excluded being present in the contract, in contravention to your claim above that "the clause [about riots] won't be in any contract to begin with". It will be there as an explicit exclusion.).

If the purchaser of the insurance makes the choice to purchase insurance which obviously and explicitly does not cover riots, they ought not be surprised when riots are not covered and it's not the insurer's fault.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by taude on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:12PM (#23411937)
Exactly. There's reason stores are proactively boarding up their store fronts, etc. to mitigate the change of having to go through the horrendous loses of business loss, and fighting insurance companies for money.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by klyrs on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:24PM (#23411641)
My dad was an insurance adjuster. He loved denying claims more than anything. "I'm not good at math, but I sure can subtract!" Fucker had a major power trip. Also had a slight anti-corporate bent, so he loved approving claims too.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by wutbrodo on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:40PM (#23412150)
He loved denying claims and he loved approving claims? How does that not completely cancel out, except perhaps for "he loves his job"?
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by klyrs on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:52PM (#23412211)
He did love his job. He enjoyed handling hundred-million dollar checks, among other things. But the glee that he got out of denying a claim was perverse.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by inetknght on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:43PM (#23410484)
The largest insurance claim I've had was for a little over $5k for a vehicle repair after collision while avoiding a pedestrian in the street. I'm not sure if you think that's "large" but it was very painless to do IMO.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by danson on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:52PM (#23410571)
That's not large in this context. It would need to be large enough to cover several thousand pounds of legal defense fees to investigate and argue against the claim. So at least several tens of thousands of dollars.

Source: been through insurance claim on a business that burnt to the ground with months of finished product stock (and which our accountant had accidentally under-insured. Very painful!)

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by alistairSH on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:46PM (#23411009)
Nope, not large.

A friend had an Aston Martin that caught on fire. About a $120k car. It took months of investigations to close that claim. Insurance pointed finger at AM, AM wanted their own investigator, fire inspector involved, etc.

And that’s not even large relative to a house or business.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by Melting_Harps on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:17PM (#23411588)
> And that’s not even large relative to a house or business.

It's way worse for a business, when I went to the MDRS for a week the bistro's kitchen in our Flagship restaurant went up in flames. The cause was unknown, but all in we lost 4.5 weeks of work due to unnecessary down time, not including the equipment repairs, contractor labor and misc costs because the city's investigators wouldn't come out to assess the damage in the allotted time slot to investigate and approve the repairs because of snow (IT'S COLORADO!) and then the Insurance stonewalled and tried to delay things further by not playing nice with the city that delayed reopening.

All told I wouldn't be surprised if we lost over a couple 100ks in lost profits and limited operational costs (we still had the bar/grill upstairs) and having to rebuild the Kitchen plus labor. Corporate paid us bonuses, which were really just 1/3 of our normal pay to help offset expenses, because of limited hours.

Bourdain was right: restaurants really are horrible businesses. Insurance which is mandatory, compounded with local government regulations and approval, makes it way worse.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by ganoushoreilly on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:26PM (#23411302)
I had a similar problem with an Audi except it was between the original person that hit me, the repair center thst did more damage and allowed the car to be flooded, and Audi. 9 months to sort out most of the car issues on a 95k car.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by AlexCoventry on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:31PM (#23411329)
I thought the idea with insurance was that they would pay out and deal with recovering the funds legally, if possible.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by alistairSH on Thursday June 04, 2020 @08:49AM (#23415893)
In my limited experience with car accidents, they generally do.

This car burst into flames overnight while parked. Turns out it was an electrical short in the dashboard wiring. But, cars don't often self-immolate, so the suspicion of wrong-doing caused a delay.

I also don't know if they paid before the investigation was completely closed. They may have, but even at that, it was a few weeks.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by dvtrn on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:41PM (#23411391)
They don’t do this out of the goodness of their hearts, insurance is ‘better to have and not need than need and not have’ and the longer you can go paying premiums without needing to file a claim the better for the insurer (monetarily speaking)
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sfj on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:34PM (#23410918)
I wasn't able to collect on insurance for “damage not due to a collision” on my motorcycle when it blew over in strong wind, because the insurance agent said, “There was a collision. When your motorcycle fell over it collided with the ground.”
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by Nextgrid on Thursday June 04, 2020 @05:44AM (#23414551)
Would there be any recourse, possibly in court?

I can't imagine that response passing muster in court, because as another commenter pointed out, all damage would involve some kind of collision between two objects which means that if we accept their response then the policy would be worthless because it wouldn't be able to cover anything.

It's implied (in the context of motor vehicle insurance) that "collision" in their case means collision between two vehicles but they're now trying to be pedantic about it when it's in their favor.

Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by kube-system on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:05PM (#23411884)
That's BS, damage due to wind when nobody was occupying the vehicle is clearly an act of god and in no way was due to your control of the vehicle.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by kuzimoto on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:40PM (#23410962)
What does it cover? Isn't any sort of damage potentially a collision?
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by gruez on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:49PM (#23411434)
I'm guessing it's only supposed to cover "traffic accidents", as opposed to "user caused" accidents (eg. dropping your phone on the ground).
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sfj on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:16PM (#23411970)
Actually the opposite. Damage due to non-collision.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by sky_rw on Thursday June 04, 2020 @10:24AM (#23416885)
I can't think of a better comment to prove my point.
Re:Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaul... by messick on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:38PM (#23411732)
That’s missing 5 or 6 zeros in order to be considered large.