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Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by ErikVandeWater on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:15AM (#23222562)
> we could tax something like 5% of stock buybacks and completely rebuild our entire society from the ground up.

Let's see a source or even back-of-the napkin calculation on this

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by Game_Ender on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:23AM (#23222643)
Planet money podcast said we did about $7 trillion in stock buy backs over the last 10 years [0]. That is $700 billion a year, so a 5% tax is $35 billion a year.

It’s a lot of money, but not enough for fundamental change. It would of been enough collectively to pay for the stimulus we are doing now though.

0 - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-500-companies-spent-7-t...

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by nugget on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:30AM (#23222735)
Didn't the Fed recently create a couple trillion dollars to inject into the economy?

I'm not sure why you'd need additional taxes at all, when it seems that deflationary pressure is so great that you can summon up trillions with little inflationary consequence. $35 billion/year seems like nothing compared to this.

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by chumali on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:44AM (#23222935)
If you are referring to the Fed repo market operations, then these are short-term collateralised loans, so not really the same thing as pumping trillions in to the real economy.

A fiscal stimulus of that size would almost certainly drive demand (during a pandemic that has caused a negative supply shock) and therefore increase inflation.

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by nugget on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:51AM (#23223977)
At a minimum doesn't the CARES act transfer at least $500 billion to SMBs and unemployed people, via PPP and Federal supplemental UI? And since this is all deficit spending, it's implicitly backed up by the Fed being willing to purchase Treasury issuances? My point being that if you buy into MMT and you don't think what has happened in the last couple months has created any inflationary pressure then you probably believe you can spend another trillion with little risk.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by sixo on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:40AM (#23222881)
Those were loans, paid back almost immediately.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by andrewljohnson on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:33AM (#23222771)
Does not compute. If congress passed a stock buyback tax 10 years ago, there would have been less buybacks over the 10 years.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mrep on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:49AM (#23223010)
Not just less, there would be none and it would have all been given out as dividends. Stock buybacks are just dividends reinvested in the company for you.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mikestew on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:08AM (#23223271)
Dividends would have been taxed. “Stock buy-backs are just...” leaves a lot out, enough that one might wonder if it were intentional.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mrep on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:12AM (#23223321)
The company buying back their stock had to buy it from someone though and that person who sold it is going to pay a tax on any gains from that sale.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mikestew on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:22AM (#23223458)
I bought way too high, so when I sell my AcmeCo stock back to AcmeCo, I’ll get a tax refund!

If you want to tax profits, then tax profits. If you want to have cheesy loophole tax avoidance, stock buy-backs might be more your style.

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by eli_gottlieb on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:59AM (#23223165)
Then how about the company doesn't make that investment decision for me?
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mrep on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:19AM (#23223400)
You can sell a proportion of you holdings to maintain the same ownership percentage thus acting like a dividend if you want. With fractional shares, you should be able to even do it with a small amount of shares. Albeit, I don't know of any brokerage that automates it for you. You can also just buy ETFs as they will sell stocks themselves in order to maintain proper weightings.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by frockington1 on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:28AM (#23223573)
Then sell proportionately to the buyback, you'll probably even make some money to get taxed on
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by cdash on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:40AM (#23222876)
Really? You think it will pay for the 2+ trillion existing stimulus? That is not to mention the stimulus that just got passed in the house, another 3 trillion. It probably wont actually be enacted to law but 35 billion is peanuts when you are talking about these numbers.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by JamesBarney on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:27AM (#23222685)
My understanding is that we are spending over 2 trillion in stimulus, it doesn't seem like 35 billion or even 700 billion will come close to paying for that.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by this_user on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:46AM (#23222967)
Except if you taxed those buybacks, they wouldn't be happening, or would only be happening at a much smaller volume. BBs are a way for companies to return money to investors when they don't know what else to do with their cash. This is how capitalism is supposed to work by optimising the allocation of capital.

What you want to do is create an artificial incentive for not returning the capital, which will lead to its suboptimal allocation. Companies will either sit on their cash, or they will be putting it into projects they would otherwise not be doing.

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by mikestew on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:10AM (#23223303)
BBs are a way for companies to return money to investors when they don't know what else to do with their cash.

That’s called a “dividend”. A dividend is taxed, however. I’ll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.

What you want to do is create an artificial incentive for not returning the capital, which will lead to its suboptimal allocation.

I truly don’t know what to make of this comment. On the one hand, we are all being mansplained on how stock buy-backs works, yet not one mention of the word “dividend”.

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by fennecfoxen on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:30AM (#23223595)
> A dividend is taxed, however.

You know what else is taxed? When a company buys back stock, reducing the number of shares outstanding so that each share represents more of the ongoing business, thus sending its stock price higher. The tax on this is called a "capital gains tax," perhaps you've heard of it?

Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by downrightmike on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:26AM (#23222670)
Stock buy backs are the largest point of growth for company spending since 2010. American companies spend more on that than R&D. Since it is the only growth they want to do, and can't weather a couple weeks of downturn because they spent all their money on stock buy backs, it needs a mechanism to curb that bad behavior and make them able to survive without the government printing trillions to bail them out.
Re:America's Growth Ponzi Scheme by Pungsnigel on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:31AM (#23222741)
Keeping interest rates artificially low is a good way of making sure no one - companies included - keeps any cash at hand.