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A comment on Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Internally.

Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Sunday May 17, 2020 @04:46PM (#23215312)
So they're giving another candy, this time to developers who like/want to use Rust. Not bad for them.

My personal view/situation is a bit different. I think this is nothing more but yet another attempt by Microsoft to woo customers into a set of technologies/runtimes/APIs that are way more constrained that good ole Win32. On windows desktop GUI front I was using Delphi since 90s and barring few easily fixable hick ups what did work then works as a charm even now. So instead of wasting my time on their infinite ever changing set of front end tech I stayed on a proven path and that saved me a ton of money. And my desktop development is still the same with extra niceties as added multi platform ability and free and open source Delphi's alternative Lazarus/FreePascal combo.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by smt88 on Sunday May 17, 2020 @08:26PM (#23216879)
Just to be clear, you think that adding support for another language is Microsoft's attempt to constrain Win32 developers?
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:00PM (#23217411)
I am asking you not to distort a context. That is not what I said. But just in case let me repeat it: Microsoft was for years and still is trying to move people from Win32 to a more constrained platform by using various means.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by roblabla on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:31PM (#23217613)
You're thinking of UWP apps, which used to only allow winrt APIs, though nowadays UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well. UWP is more about the distribution model than the APIs (apps must be signed, are usually installed through the store, etc...)

The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine, and mixed with win32 from within the same executable. They don't constrain anything. UWP, however...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Monday May 18, 2020 @01:21AM (#23218654)
"UWP app can also access most of win32 APIs as well"

Most and all are 2 different things. I've discovered limits immediately after investigating possibility of porting one of my apps.

The winrt APIs can be used from traditional desktop apps just fine

WinRT based applications run in sandbox and have their own limits.

None of what you say has any relation to my original POV.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by roblabla on Monday May 18, 2020 @06:52AM (#23220795)
UWP apps run in a sandbox and have their own limits, e.g. most win32 api access requires special entitlements to work. WinRT is just a set of COM-based APIs, they don't inherently have any restrictioms on where or how they can be used.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by rvz on Sunday May 17, 2020 @05:33PM (#23215674)
Well Microsoft has learned their lesson this time when they missed out on the smartphone industry and they are coming after winning back developers; and it seems to be working, especially when you give them "free stuff".

Now that they have Github, NPM, Azure, WSL2 and WinUI its no surprise why they would want to allow other languages such as Rust to be easily used on Windows. Better support for Rust means more developers will hop on supporting Windows.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:14AM (#23218952)
Well, you are free to switch to ReactOS in that case.

I rather have the warm feeling that random app X won't snoop my user data files.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:27AM (#23219035)
I can donate abacus to you. Just let me know where to mail it.

More seriously. Windows does not prevent me from using Win32 so no need to use ReactOS and I did not ever have a single customer complaint about not using UWP/.NET/WinRT/Whatever tech. So in my areas of business where it concerns desktop apps that "warm feeling" means zilch fro a practical standpoint.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:35AM (#23219079)
So I have news for your, not only is Win32 sandbox a thing, it is part of Windows 10X experience which uses sandboxes for everything, and Windows 10X is also coming to a laptop near you in the future.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Monday May 18, 2020 @05:34AM (#23220272)
Well, I have news for you too. Windows 10X is specialized edition of Windows and is not meant as a replacement for Windows 10. MS is not planning for it to displace regular Windows versions. Also while running win32 apps in a sandbox all the win32 API's (at least the ones I am concerned about) are still available. There will be no need to change anything. It is basically more or less analog of Linux containers. You are free to spread your "news" to other people. To me it looks like worrying about non existing issue.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @07:18AM (#23220974)
Not paying attention to the news are we?

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/05/04/accel...

Apparently you aren't using OpenGL then,

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/in-the-works-opencl-a...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:24AM (#23223492)
I already said Vulkan and OpenGL apps are not mine. I just use those. How their vendors going to deal with is not my concern. I am pretty sure they will have dealt with the issue by then.

My desktop apps that use hardware acceleration and I still care about are DirectX.

In any way keep reading news and adjust your stack and rewrite your applications every time MS sneezes. Good luck. I am pretty happy so far investing in features rather then rewriting.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by my123 on Monday May 18, 2020 @08:15AM (#23221351)
The OpenGL/OpenCL to DX12 layers are for when vendors don't want to implement such a stack or to ease migration. For example, Qualcomm doesn't implement OpenGL or OpenCL on their Windows drivers at all.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:14AM (#23221887)
Nope, there is zero support on Win32 sandbox and UWP, ICD drivers aren't allowed.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by hu3 on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:55AM (#23219179)
That's a big if and a big when.

Unlike Apple, Microsoft is dead serious on maintaining compatibility with minimal hassle.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @03:34AM (#23219406)
Kind of, try to run MS-DOS, Windows 3.x or some Windows 32 bit software on Windows 10 64bit Pro to see how far you will go.

Or OpenGL/Vulkan in Win32 or UWP sandboxes for that matter.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Monday May 18, 2020 @05:36AM (#23220289)
I run OpenGL just fine in win32. Also have Vulkan based app (not my own) and runs just fine. Do not give a flying hoot whether it runs under UWP as I would not touch it with a wooden pole.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by pjmlp on Monday May 18, 2020 @07:09AM (#23220919)
Win32 sandbox!

The only way to run Win32 on Windows 10X and possibly in future Windows 10 versions as well, even if it takes a couple of years more, just like it is happening with Apple and Google's platforms.

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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by alkonaut on Sunday May 17, 2020 @05:19PM (#23215579)
Rust with win32 has worked for years.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by FpUser on Sunday May 17, 2020 @05:21PM (#23215598)
Did I say it does not? I think you've completely missed my point. By the number of downvotes it seems you are not alone. So maybe I was not clear enough.
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Re:Rust/WinRT Brings Microsoft Closer to Adopting Rust Inter... by alkonaut on Sunday May 17, 2020 @05:32PM (#23215664)
Perhaps my answer didn't even suggest you did :) I don't even know any more.
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