News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by sacks2k on Thursday May 07, 2020 @09:56PM (#23110592)
It's not just WeChat.

They own stakes in many american media companies and movie production houses. They use this influence to also change our Media and push pro-Chinese propaganda to the American public.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by 88840-8855 on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:59AM (#23111835)
Propaganda is propaganda. It does not surprise me and it is very obvious - even more obvious then the "USA SO HERO" and "WESTERN STUFF IS SO COOL" propaganda in movies.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by president on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:17PM (#23117773)
The difference is there are plenty of US movies that can denounce their own government while Chinese movies can never take any criticism about themselves. I would take self-promotion over censorship any day.
[dead]
Re:We Chat, They Watch by underwater on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:45AM (#23112735)
A white sepremacy blog, are you serious?
Re:We Chat, They Watch by itronitron on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:42AM (#23112718)
uhm, that excerpt is the single kernel that sticks out from the rest of the article
Re:We Chat, They Watch by itsmeamario on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:23AM (#23112599)
The article was interesting but boy, did it take an unexpected turn at the end. I may agree with the article and the life in Senegal, but I definitely DON'T with the conclusion.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by fnordian_slip on Friday May 08, 2020 @05:04AM (#23112814)
How was that turn unexpected?

Didn't the part that said

"Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that a few decades later, liberals would be pushing the lie that Western civilization is no better than a third-world country. Or would teach two generations of our kids that loving your own culture and wanting to preserve it are racism."

at the beginning clue you in?

The author certainly doesn't try very hard to be subtle.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by drukenemo on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:48AM (#23111486)
I’ve been suspecting this for a long time but came across few evidence for it. I’ve seen Chinese funding of Hollywood movies, but it’s always through an American fund, etc. What kind of evidence have you found? To me, the fact that Hollywood would never attack communism, is a big one. Thousands of movies about nazism, zero about the Soviet union and their crimes. Even Cuba is very underrepresented in the industry. Yet differently from a regime that lasted two decades, we are talking about one that persists very well until today.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by izacus on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:25AM (#23111969)
Um, what are you talking about? There were whole decades of Hollywood having the Reds as the default villain. Everything up to 2000s when they were replaced by middle easterners.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by draugadrotten on Friday May 08, 2020 @03:46AM (#23112387)
America was at war with the talibans: America had always been at war with the talibans. A large part of the political literature of five years was now completely obsolete. Reports and records of all kinds, newspapers, books, pamphlets, films, sound-tracks, photographs--all had to be rectified at lightning speed. Although no directive was ever issued, it was known that the chiefs of the Department intended that within one week no reference to the war with communism, or the alliance with the talibans, should remain in existence anywhere.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by vinay427 on Friday May 08, 2020 @06:06AM (#23113105)
Except that all of this material (movies and TV, news articles, reports) is still available. I don't see how this adapted quote is at all applicable.

The whole point of the 1984 scenario was that people couldn't talk about the preceding period and no evidence supporting its existence could be found.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by Terr_ on Friday May 08, 2020 @11:04AM (#23115564)
I'll go a step further: Not only is the evidence and history of US-Taliban relations all still there, but the accused-1984 people weren't even denying the history exists. They were, at worst, just glossing over it.

Let's suppose that there are five tiers on the spectrum of "good" to "1984": Acknowledge the history; Omit it; Contradict it, Erase it, Punish dissenters.

Prior to 2016 most US politicians never went past Omit.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by kevin_thibedeau on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:09PM (#23116352)
> Prior to 2016 most US politicians never went past Omit.

Bush 2.0 did a good job of making the media toe the line by shutting out any dissenters. This was the beginning of the neo-con manipulation game.

[dead]
Re:We Chat, They Watch by dang on Saturday May 09, 2020 @07:43AM (#23123923)
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines.

Complaining about how you'll get banned doesn't immunize you against getting banned, btw. You have to actually follow the rules, and this sort of flamebait and nationalistic battle is well outside the line.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:We Chat, They Watch by square_usual on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:32AM (#23111688)
I haven't seen anybody "support" WeChat on HN, and even Zoom has been catching a lot of flack here. More than that, though, your jump from the users of a site supposedly supporting certain products to the site itself being owned by the Chinese is hilariously absurd. Maybe you should actually think about what you're saying before the next time you yell "Wake up, sheeple!"
Re:We Chat, They Watch by mads on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:52AM (#23111793)
It is no coincidence, when Chinese companies decide to invest in western culture (and subsequently decide you cannot flash certain flags, show certain teddy bears or express your opinion on whether you think a city should be free or not), buy a hotel near a naval base or push cheap network equipment.

The doctrine is commonly known as 3 warfares and was drawn up by officers in the Chinese military in the beginning of the 90'ies. The success of the officers behind the strategy have since moved on to become high ranking military officials, which should give you an idea about how their work was received within the Chinese government.

Looking for classic cold war patterns is not going work with China.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by system2 on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:35AM (#23111707)
Downvotes don't mean censorship. You clearly made your point with complete freedom of speech. Agreeing with you is another thing.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by liberal_098 on Friday May 08, 2020 @07:46AM (#23113664)
> Downvotes don't mean censorship.

Good question. I think it does if downvotes result in inability to express an opinion (as opposed to simply having downvotes shown).

If downvotes are used to suppress freedoms then downvoting is a means of censorship. In other words, there is no big difference between prohibiting something by one person (dictatorship) or by 10 persons (collective dictatorship) (if it is not prohibited by law of course).

Re:We Chat, They Watch by president on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:31PM (#23117900)
The problem is that downvoting alone doesn't really tell you anything meaningful other than someone didn't like your post. You can say something completely factual and logical but just because someone didn't like your tone, they can turn your post invisible. This does not promote healthy discourse. This also means that for any topic that is super controversial, the thing that determines whether the post gets seen or not is whether a majority group is able to downvote the post into oblivion early enough. Because once a post is greyed out, very few people are going to read it at that point and it will stay grey. At the very least, downvoting should require providing reasoning for the downvote so people can defend their argument.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by throwawaylolx on Friday May 08, 2020 @06:18AM (#23113166)
What's censorship and what is not seems to always change depending on convenience https://i.imgur.com/xTCKWNM.jpg
Re:We Chat, They Watch by dntbnmpls on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:22AM (#23111947)
> You can see the pro-chinese propaganda on this site alone.

Actually, most of the propaganda here and in social media has been anti-chinese. Obnoxiously so.

> The number of people supporting Zoom, WHO, WeChat, etc is enough to conclude with near certainty this site as well is owned by the Chinese.

What? Almost everything about Zoom, WHO, WeChat, etc has been negative. Even this thread has been negative.

> What you're speaking is truth. It's a shame this site will censor you.

Don't. The obvious victimhood propaganda won't get you very far here.

> It is no coincidence so much information suppression has gone on the last 3 months...

3 months? It's been going on for many years. And I don't think it is the chinese behind it.

People like you tell us that the russians and now the chinese control propaganda in the US and yet everything I read, see or hear is anti-russian and anti-chinese. Either the russians and chinese hate themselves or they are just terrible at propaganda or you are simply wrong.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by president on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:40PM (#23118003)
The issue I see is not related to whether a site contains a balanced view point or not. That is up to honest moderation based on the site's guidelines.

The main issue is how a site provides tools for promoting healthy discussion. As long as a submission cooperates with a site's guidelines, the site's (moral) duty after that is to ensure that people that make good use of logic, reason, facts, and sources have their voices heard. What I see sometimes on this site is that people that have legitimate arguments and authoritative sources have their posts silenced (greyed out) or flagged just because a majority group of users disagreed emotionally. To me, that is a red flag. I believe that HN tries it's best to promote healthy discourse but I also believe that there is more they can do to optimize it.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by nikofeyn on Friday May 08, 2020 @03:05AM (#23112150)
> Actually, most of the propaganda here and in social media has been anti-chinese. Obnoxiously so.

yes, exactly. hacker news, even more so than other sites i visit, has a very anti-chinese bend to it. however, the parent article is indeed interesting.

[dead]
Re:We Chat, They Watch by shasheene on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:33AM (#23111415)
Don't insinuate shilling (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). If you read that comment again with more care you'll see it's not at all whataboutism (the "What about America doing xyz" type comment that tries to suggest criticism is invalid because behavior elsewhere).
Re:We Chat, They Watch by hyperion2010 on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:13AM (#23111613)
As JCharante mentions, this statement was offered as a modernization of historical reaction to similar events, not a commentary on the parent comment. In that context the interpretation my statement basically turns on whether you believe the McCarthy was right or not and whether a similar person would be right or not today.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by shasheene on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:26AM (#23111668)
Oh, I hadn't realized your question was paraphrasing a quote made famous during the 1950s
Re:We Chat, They Watch by xenihn on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:39AM (#23112026)
References to McCarthyism are still very recognizable and not at all fringe...
Re:We Chat, They Watch by JCharante on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:10AM (#23111599)
I took it as a reference to the famous quote/question "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
[dead]
Re:We Chat, They Watch by gervu on Thursday May 07, 2020 @11:40PM (#23111185)
Wow, one character from a region that makes up 60% of the world's population? How radical. Next you'll be telling me that I should be worried because they included a black character and a female character.

If anything, the fact that anyone considers this at all notable should be a sign of just how racially biased casting is in most Western media. The world isn't nearly as white as it looks on your TV.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by softwarejosh on Thursday May 07, 2020 @11:49PM (#23111221)
yeah i literally dont get why the guy brought up race, they should be bringing up shit like video game companies making their black characters white to sell to china. or how about the basic example of blizzards fumbling of the pro hong kong competition winner last year
Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:39AM (#23111440)
> i literally don't get why the guy brought up race

They brought up race because they were replying to a racist conspiracy theory amounting to them running Hollywood and pushing their agenda.

Hacker News is one of the few sites - others being Stormfront, Daily Stormer, 8chan - where that kind of shit still flies.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by wolco on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:01AM (#23111556)
That opinion is more mainstream then you give it credit. It is backed up recently by the nba losses (2 billion reported) for letting a player give support to Hong kong.

China has increased their power. Calling that notion racist discounts all of the different people who make up China's population. China is a country with people of many different colors, backgrounds and religions. Thinking of China as a single color is a little racist.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:11AM (#23111893)
The NBA losing money and the Chinese government being totalitarian and thin skinned doesn't give free rein to any old racist shit, mate.

And they own media companies to push their agenda is flat out, textbook conspiracy theory racism, unless you have more evidence than something completely unrelated.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by orestarod on Friday May 08, 2020 @09:27AM (#23114616)
How is criticizing a government racist towards the people it happens to rule over, again?

In that logic, criticizing someone is racism towards each and every group that human happens to be part of. That's plain silly.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:26PM (#23116515)
"They own stakes in many american media companies and movie production houses. They use this influence to also change our Media and push pro-Jewish propaganda to the American public."

Just criticism of the Israeli government?

Re:We Chat, They Watch by vermilingua on Saturday May 09, 2020 @04:04AM (#23123032)
The difference there is that people holding those views never claim that the Israeli govt is behind such schemes, they believe it is the International Jewish Shadow Cabal, in which Israel is just a cog.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Saturday May 09, 2020 @10:02AM (#23124755)
My point is that such a statement is obviously not referring to a government, but to a people.

Is your point seriously that such a statement is racist when about Jewish people, but not racist when about Chinese people?

Re:We Chat, They Watch by justwalt on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:01AM (#23111846)
I don’t think it’s fair to call it a racist position. I read it as them saying that the Chinese government is doing these things, not that the Chinese people are doing these things.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by mrcodedude on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:10AM (#23111598)
It's a racist conspiracy that China is using its financial leverage to influence creative decisions by American-based companies?

Why do you think the last few Transformer movies were made?

Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:49AM (#23111779)
Go on then, explain how the last few Transformer movies were about pushing pro-Chinese propaganda.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by mrcodedude on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:58AM (#23112118)
That's not what I said.

China is using its position to propagate and censor media both domestically and globally.

Not liking the actions of a government doesn't mean you're racist against that population.

https://screenrant.com/movies-changed-for-china/

> Decisions to cast Tilda Swinton as a 'celtic' incarnation of the Ancient One, typically a Tibetan character, alongside the choice to move Stephen Strange's place of spiritual enlightenment and training from Tibet to Nepal, have created significant controversy online from those who argue that Marvel Studios is whitewashing Strange's backstory to better appeal to the Chinese government.

Propaganda doesn't have to look like a commercial from a tourism board.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:53AM (#23112771)
> That's not what I said.

Then what you said has nothing to do with what I was commenting on, which was not a claim that Hollywood will do what it has to do to access the Chinese market, but a claim that "they" own stakes in media companies to push pro-Chinese propaganda to the American public.

Do you have some examples of that?

Re:We Chat, They Watch by mellow2020 on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:26PM (#23116522)
Imagine Germany successfully putting pressure on American movie makers to make Jewish figures in their stories be no longer Jewish, because in it's official German policy that Jews do not exist, they've always been just Germans or something else.

You can split hairs and say that's technically not pro-German, but anti-Jewish or whatever, and put "they" in quotes all you want; nobody who cares about the actual individual people and not just sophistry in a vacuum will be moved by it.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by pmachinery on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:28PM (#23117238)
And you can carry on avoiding the question all you want, if you can't bring yourself to call out a rancid old racist conspiracy theory for what it is.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by wolco on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:38AM (#23111438)
The problem is that black female character has been replaced with a female asian character.

The diversity of Americans is not being represented anymore. Trying to sell to the Chinese market has unintended costs.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by throw37543 on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:33AM (#23111695)
And these characters are typically paired up with the white male hero. Isn’t this more indicative of the director’s or writer’s fantasies?
Re:We Chat, They Watch by data4lyfe on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:06AM (#23111291)
It's illuminating that you think Asian diversity in media is Chinese propaganda.
Re:We Chat, They Watch by Aperocky on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:42AM (#23111458)
Can you show an example of blatant Chinese propaganda from those production houses? One that are clearly separated from opinion?

Or are we using propaganda and opinions interchangeably here

Re:We Chat, They Watch by BelleOfTheBall on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:28AM (#23112632)
How about the fact that a character in a Marvel movie, ostensibly an inoffensive family film, who was originally Tibetian, was changed to a white woman just so it could make money in China? I don't think Disney has any Chinese ownership, but it's pretty blatant that the industry is bending over backwards to not piss off China and get the box office returns there.

Here's a whole article on it: https://www.cnet.com/features/marvel-is-censoring-films-for-...

Re:We Chat, They Watch by Reelin on Friday May 08, 2020 @01:08AM (#23111590)
China exerts significant influence over the production process if you want access. (https://fortune.com/2019/10/22/hollywood-china-coproduction-...)

It's not a matter of "separated from opinion", but rather the cutting of certain scenes or modification of certain lines of dialog. They also effectively engage in various forms of product placement on a more nationalistic level.

Re:We Chat, They Watch by Markoff on Friday May 08, 2020 @03:07AM (#23112161)
propaganda meaning they are censoring content of movies, good luck shooting movie where Chinese will be shown as bad guys... it does not need to show them in good light, it's just better not show them at all, if you intended to use them as villains or show truth about them, that's good enough for them

and anyway in recent years they tried to promote China in movies as cooperating nation helping world

Re:We Chat, They Watch by throwaway122378 on Friday May 08, 2020 @12:51AM (#23111502)
Don’t think of it like traditional old world propaganda that’s obviously promoting China. The propaganda can be anything that divides the country. Both are the same result as far as China’s concerned.