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Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by TheCoelacanth on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:52PM (#22799692)
That seems unfairly stacked in favor of the defense. If they refuse to pay for the arbitration, that should be the same as if they just refuse to show up to court, i.e. default judgement in favor of the plaintiff.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by whatshisface on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:10PM (#22799768)
Arbitration isn't a court, it's a mutually agreed upon deal that might help parties stay out of court.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by jjoonathan on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @12:10AM (#22800289)
> mutually agreed upon

So, buried in size 3 font on page 355 of a document included by reference in the 200 page TOS and that can be found at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard" -- that one is to have read in full by legal counsel before spending $30/month on internet access?

Right.

I know that courts know about contracts of adhesion, but suggesting that there's anything mutual about them is absolutely grounds for a little prodding.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Spivak on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:48PM (#22799928)
And what company is going to write in a default judgement for the plaintiff in their ToS?
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by avs733 on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:06PM (#22800014)
The arbitration vendors (and lets be clear...they are vendors not a system of justice) could and probably should write this into their rules.

They rely on the appearance of fairness to enable corporations to use their services against consumers/employees. If they aren't careful there is a risk of the courts increasingly observing how tipped the scales of arbitration are.

The jurisprudence, to the limited extent I understand it, relies on the assertion that arbitration is fair. Upholding that believe is in the arbitrators interest.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by e8u3h3jeue on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @12:17AM (#22800309)
>(and lets be clear...they are vendors not a system of justice)

This is misleading, neither America nor any other country has a justice system. Justice is often a goal of the legal system but it is not a direct attribute of the system.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by distances on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:52AM (#22800646)
Most of Europe, at least, isn't bound to the letter of the law, but rather the spirit of it. I'd assume this makes them much more a justice system than the American version.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by whatshisface on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @09:31AM (#22803013)
To be fair, the "justice system" is a commonly accepted name for the legal system, in the same way that you would call it the "Department of Defense" or the "Department for Health and Social Care."
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by bjelkeman-again on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:48AM (#22800625)
How would you design a Justice system then?
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by avs733 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @09:26AM (#22802978)
that is an absolutely fair critique of my word choice. Totally agree, and I'm usually the person making that comment.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by arbitraryacct on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @04:47AM (#22801463)
Arbitration is extremely disruptive. If someone takes you to arbitration, you pay $1k non-refundable, simply because they want to take you to court.

If you do end up in court, it's another $20k just for JAMS fees. Again, non-refundable, doesn't matter if you win or lose.

So if someone is trying to take you to arbitration over less than $20k, it really doesn't matter AT ALL if they are right or not, it makes sense to settle for whatever amount you can convince them to agree to.

You can kill a company with frivolous arbitrations, just by having enough people willing to file one. Doesn't matter if those people have been wronged.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by TheCoelacanth on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @10:38AM (#22803588)
Should have thought of that before you added a mandatory arbitration clause to your contracts.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by jeltz on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:09AM (#22802440)
If so, why not just remove the arbitration clause?