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Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by mandelken on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:28PM (#22798511)
As a European, reading these articles on arbitration, no-compete, required licenses, 'right-to-work', tipping, "gig work", firing over zoom, and so much more, it seems U.S. workers could really use some collective bargaining? Here unions are the obvious century-old solution to improve working conditions, why don't workers organize there? Are we just lucky here, like with universal health care?
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by gumby on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:47PM (#22798636)
Unions have suffered from a bad reputation in the United States over the past few decades.

Some of it is deserved BTW; some big unions were/are corrupted and some were connected with organized crime. Even more innocently, unions have been quite conservative; as jobs and technology changed some were very resistant and fought modernization (requiring people who were not needed to be around). But a lot of it also stems from corporate resistance to unionization and the high regard in which ordinary people hold the opinions of corporate managers in the USA.

All that being said, unions have been very good for labor, and when I've worked in union shops (not in a unionized role) they've been really great in terms of qualified people and high quality work. I built my house using union labor and I'm glad I did.

Europe is not immune to these diseases by the way. Certain French unions certainly negotiate against the greater interests of society. And in Germany my non-unionized brother in law (a mechanical engineer) was not allowed to work late at VW -- he was trying to finish a project one evening and a union guy came by and cut his PC's power cable while he was designing a part.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by wegs on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:20PM (#22798898)
Most of the bad reputation is deserved. Most US unions are horrible organizations. There are still some good unions, just not many.

That doesn't make the concept of a union bad. They worked much better 50 years ago, even. It's a great concept, but the implementation got corrupted over the years.

I don't think we'll fix unions' reputations without first fixing unions. And we really need more unions and more credible unions.

As a footnote, in my local school district, under coronavirus school closures, the teacher's union negotiated that the teachers get paid, but they don't need to remotely teach students. Some teachers continue teaching for some amount of time, but essentially on a volunteer basis. Many teachers are just sitting at home, doing nothing except for collecting a pay check.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by tssva on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:35PM (#22798998)
Are you sure it was the union which forced the district not to remote teach? I live in an area where teachers are not unionized and the teachers are still getting paid and not teaching. The school district has signed contracts with the teachers which doesn't have any terms which stop payment because the schools close during the year and the district is not requiring remote learning because of equal access issues.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:12PM (#22799193)
> doesn't have any terms which stop payment because the schools close during the year

And so they shouldn't! In many (most?) US states, the public schools are unconditionally funded by the state based on student enrollment figures. Cutting teacher pay during a closure under such a system would be a purely greedy move.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by tssva on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:50PM (#22799380)
If my comment seemed to imply I thought they shouldn't I didn't mean to. I agree that they should get paid.

I don't know how it works in the majority of states but I know the model of mostly state funding based upon student enrollment is not universal. In my state the majority of funding is from local tax revenues. For example the budget for my local school district is approximately $1.3 billion. $370 million comes from the state and $30 million comes from the federal government. Another $40 million comes from "misc other sources" and $860 million comes from local tax revenue.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:28PM (#22800108)
I hadn't considered the local tax aspect. I understand that many areas are projecting large shortfalls in the near future, so I suppose there could be some issues. I guess it would probably depend on how the education taxes were levied in a given jurisdiction (property, sales, or something else).
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Talanes on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:05PM (#22800012)
California funds schools by actual attendance, not enrollment, and we're around 10% of the US school population.

Sources: https://edsource.org/2019/californias-school-funding-flaws-m...

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_203.20.a...

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:21PM (#22800070)
Wow, that's terrible IMO. Public schools are quasi-governmental entities with largely fixed costs. Aren't the taxes getting paid either way? Doesn't regulation require a specific number of school days per year? And there are certainly truancy laws on the books.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by jcims on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:39PM (#22799325)
In their defense, developing content for a classroom is a shit-ton of work. Flipping that over to Internet-only is going to take some time. If they are just sitting at home getting drunk and trolling facebook that's one thing, but it's going to take a couple of months for teachers to effectively pivot to a mode of teaching that they've never had to do. Until then you're just going to see a trickle of work even from the best of them b/c they are going to be focused on trying to develop a game plan to close out the year.

My wife taught K12 for 12 years and then became an instructional coach teaching teachers how to teach. There's a shitload of work if you want to do it right, and at least half (in our district anyway) will stretch themselves extremely thin to do so. Half of the rest are 9-5'ers and the remainder are shitheads.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by wegs on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:48PM (#22799931)
Well, I'm pretty sure. The negotiation between the teacher's union on the administration is a closed-door meeting, but I follow district politics very closely.

Perceived equity issues fed into this as well. The result, of course, is that parents who have time to teach kids have kids who are learning, while the vast majority of the district is learning nothing. With remote learning, the results would be less differential. But I guess the districts feels worse about inequities it contributes to than ones that arise out of inaction. We have a 1:1 program, so all students have technology.

But I would the union preempted this, and is what made this discussion moot.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by s1artibartfast on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:07PM (#22799168)
When my mother was a school teacher, the union had mandatory fees which went to partisan political campaigns against her ideology and self interest. I think this was eventually challenged and overturned in court, but it left a terrible impression.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by hermitdev on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:41PM (#22799895)
This is my biggest gripe with unions in the US: that they can basically force you to join the union against your will if you want to perform certain jobs. The Teacher's Union is notorious for this.

There was a fairly recent ruling from the SCOTUS that struck down compelling non union members to pay union dues. It was as recently as 2018 or 2019. Cant remember the case name, but it originated in Illinois (a very, very pro union state).

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by jcims on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:35PM (#22799300)
My wife, two of her brothers, their spouses and obviously many of their collective friends are public school teachers in the US. The teacher's union in our state is largely a spineless organization that will protect the points they negotiate into a contract but leave legitimate educators high and dry when it comes to real issues. It's one of the worst unions that I've had the occasion to see up close and personal...and I'm a former member of the Teamsters.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by secabeen on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:38PM (#22799621)
A lot of the challenges come out of the specifics of the laws surrounding unions. They were written in a much rougher era, where corporations and unions were very much in direct opposition. If we could re-write those laws, we could open the door to much more cooperative relationships between unions that the current laws do not allow. Unfortunately, there's no sign of the republican and democratic parties getting together to make a grand bargain on the laws, so we're stuck with them as they are today.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by perl4ever on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:13PM (#22799782)
"much more cooperative relationships between unions"

Sure, cooperation sounds good in theory, but don't we have examples (in the US) of where management of a company and management of their union ended up very friendly at the expense of the workers? I'm pretty sure I read about stuff like that in the context of the recent automotive union corruption scandals.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by secabeen on Wednesday April 08, 2020 @05:27PM (#22817356)
I'm thinking more like things like works councils, and other ways that the employees could play more of a role in running the company, rather than the adversarial setup we have now. Here's an article from 1981 that gives some background: https://digitalcommons.law.msu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by wegs on Wednesday April 08, 2020 @10:43AM (#22813356)
Past performance isn't always indicative of future performance. Cultures and worlds change. In many cases, people confuse poor concepts with poor execution (or vice-versa: bad concept with excellent execution or good luck can be successful).

I say try it maybe in one state and see how it goes.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by nraynaud on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:18PM (#22799225)
It has to be said that most employers are corrupt in the US too, non-compete, arbitration, weird ways of paying salaries, generalized surveillance of employees, brutal layoffs, Gag orders in exchange for severance, etc.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by bbarn on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:38PM (#22799318)
You forgot "Flex PTO"
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by zero_intp on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @10:34AM (#22803554)
as a salaried worker I refuse to participate in flex PTO, it's not how the labor laws are written. I work for a significant part of the day and have a legitimate reason to stop, I do not submit any leave requests.

My company recently granted an extra 40 hours of COVID PTO to use for flex, which is nice, but they could just stop trying to work around labor laws.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by xmprt on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:21PM (#22799241)
Having a 2nd hand experience with Hollywood Unions, there are so many outdated rules that make filming a nightmare. If you're producing a union film then you need to hire people for certain jobs and you're not allowed to do those jobs yourself even if it would make everything go smoother. If you don't abide by union rules then you're not eligible for certain awards or screenings.

I had another experience in college where the TA union put up barriers for undergraduate students who weren't TAs to apply for university teaching opportunities. Any discussions or office hours must be held in the presence of a TA and if your schedule didn't work out then tough luck.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by gamblor956 on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:43PM (#22799648)
Having 1st hand experience with Hollywood unions, (and being 1 background extra gig away from SAG eligiblity) I can say that none of the rules are outdated, and they definitely don't making filming a nightmare.

Yes, if you're making a union film you need to hire union members for positions covered by the union agreement. But unless your studio has signed an agreement with the unions, you're not subject to union rules. Generally, only the big studios and the bigger indies are subject to the Hollywood union rules.

If you don't abide by union rules then you're not eligible for certain awards or screenings.

This doesn't apply to the Academy Awards, Golden Globes, or other major awards. Many of the films nominated for these awards every year don't abide by union rules because their weren't subject to them.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by abtinf on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:06PM (#22799158)
Building your private home with union labor is a completely different thing than unionized work forces in companies.

When building your home, you have the option of hiring non-union workers. Workers have the option of not joining the union. The union essentially acts as a service provider to the independent workers. These individuals charge quite a bit more than non-union workers, but often have astounding levels of competence, productivity, and workmanship.

When a company is unionized, none of those things are true. Instead of the union being a de facto endorsement of a particular worker, it acts to protect its own power over the workers. Instead of the company having a choice about who to hire for a particular role, it is forced into one choice. Instead of workers joining a union for their own benefit, they are forced to join because of legal coercion. The union is highly motivated to control and limit its members--freedom for the members means destruction of the union.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by gamblor956 on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:44PM (#22799655)
Instead of the union being a de facto endorsement of a particular worker, it acts to protect its own power over the workers. Instead of the company having a choice about who to hire for a particular role, it is forced into one choice. Instead of workers joining a union for their own benefit, they are forced to join because of legal coercion. The union is highly motivated to control and limit its members--freedom for the members means destruction of the union.

All of the statements in that paragraph are false.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by hermitdev on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:00PM (#22799984)
Downvoted not because I disagree with you (I do), but because you offer up no counterpoint/arguments to support your opinion.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by cool_dude85 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @07:17AM (#22802186)
The original quote doesn't offer any arguments to support its claim. It's just a statement of opinion as fact.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by throw_m239339 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @04:34AM (#22801408)
> Unions have suffered from a bad reputation in the United States over the past few decades.

When I see "unions" such as "game worker unite" which is more of a communist political party than a union, or what Kickstarter union wants (have more say on what campaigns can be featured on Kickstarter or not, which is not what a union should be about), I understand why American unions have such a bad rep. These 2 examples aren't what unions should be about. What does a say in moderation policies on a platform has to do with worker conditions? Nothing.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Mirioron on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:39PM (#22798573)
>Are we just lucky here, like with universal health care?

You don't hear as much about European problems online, because they're spoken about in the respective nation's language. This means that it's hard to compare. Most European countries also have many problems like the US. Maybe not to quite the same extreme, but they do exist. The US does have a few things going for it though: very strong protections of speech, very high wages, a system of incredible services - things like Amazon, FedEx etc. From my perspective, things in the US actually seem better than in Europe for the long-term. They just have a few very obvious pain points like healthcare and the silliness of a lack of worker protections in some states.

Just keep in mind that unions aren't universal across Europe or even the EU. They usually exist, but they tend to not have much leverage.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by kenned3 on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:03PM (#22798751)
"a very strong protections of speech"

I grew up in Canada, then moved to the US for 5 years before returning home to Canada. It always killed me when my US coworkers said teh same thing about "free speech" as i watched censored TV shows in the US which are not that way back in Canada.

I think "free speech" on the US side is highly overrarted and if you look into it more seriously you will find many nations which are at least at the US level. Some higher, like Canada, which doesnt have the "7 words you cant say on TV" restriction.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:32PM (#22798983)
The "seven words" only applies to _broadcast_ mediums (television and radio) because of the limited shared medium thing. I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but that's life.

More generally, protections against the government for personal speech are more complete in the US (both in principle and in practice) than any other country I'm aware of. A few examples might be the Westboro Baptist Church or the infamous Brandenburg v. Ohio case. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio)

(My view is necessarily US-centric though, so do feel free to point out any counterexamples I might not be aware of.)

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by kenned3 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @06:36PM (#22808197)
Again, this is just my anecdotal view based on only 5 years in the US. We (Canada) have equal rights and so i always found it odd how often i was told about "Free speech" but couldnt see anything different in the US vs Canada.

we do have "hate laws" here, and you see others commenting and outlining how this is a "restriction" on free speech, but if you look at the law, you will see the US has something similiar as well:

Canada: https://cfe.ryerson.ca/key-resources/guidesadvice/legal-rest...

US : https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1204/breach-of-...

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by phd514 on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:22PM (#22798909)
The FCC has obscenity regulations for broadcast TV in the US under the idea that the broadcast spectrum is owned by the people. Cable television has no such restrictions. That rationale holds up a lot less now than it did in the early days of broadcast television, but it's still a far cry from Canadian hate speech laws in which the expression of certain points of view is deemed a crime.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by jpdb on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:02PM (#22799448)
> a far cry from Canadian hate speech laws in which the expression of certain points of view is deemed a crime.

Can you link to these laws? Because if you're talking about bill C-16, it's very clear that it isn't making it a crime to express certain beliefs, it's making it illegal to discriminate based on gender or gender identity. Just as the US does with regards to certain traits (such as color, religion, marital status, etc)

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by kenned3 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @06:28PM (#22808133)
The OP isnt going to come back and provide a citation because throwing out unsubstantiated "facts" seems to be the thing to do on the internet.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by manfredo on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:25PM (#22798928)
The "censored" TV shows are really just the networks not wanting to piss off their advertisers. There is little to no censorship in the sense that the government actually prevents you from publishing something - especially now that almost all media is internet or cable. The last area where government actually decided content was with broadcast television, since the government got to decide how to use a limited number of frequencies.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by hermitdev on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:07PM (#22800020)
The FCC still levies fines for certain levels profanity and certain forms of nudity for over-the-air broadcasts for TV and FM/AM radio (I dont think satellite is bound due to being a paid service). Granted the standard for finable offenses has loosened over the years, and you can get away with more late night (presumably because the kids should be in bed).

I dont recall if the "wardrobe malfunction" in the Janet Jackson/Just Timberlake Super Bowl half time show resulted in a fine, but pretty much all live broadcasts are now delayed 15-30 seconds or so that so a producer (or whomever) can hit the censor button if something comes up.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by manfredo on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @03:12AM (#22800999)
Right, but over air broadcast hasn't been a primary mode of media consumption for decades at this point. The "censorship" on cable broadcasts you refer to are private companies keeping their content advertiser friendly not government restrictions.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by kenned3 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @06:40PM (#22808237)
Your response has little to do with the post. The FCC is a government agency, correct? so when it issues fines for "free speech"...

"Between 1990 and 2004, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued fines totalling $2.5 million to radio licensees for airing material it deemed indecent from The Howard Stern Show, the highest amount of any American radio show. "

"On April 8, 2004, Clear Channel was fined $27,500 for each of the 18 violations for a combined $495,000 NAL for airing the broadcast on its six stations that carried Stern"

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by manfredo on Wednesday April 08, 2020 @01:24PM (#22814973)
No, they issue licenses to broadcast on certain frequencies. And some of these licenses dictate what content can be shown and at white time of day (usually to the effect of restricting mature content to evening and nighttime airing). This is because of the nature of how bandwidth is publicly owned, and so the the public gets to decide how to allocate a limited resource. Fines exist to accommodate the fact that certain content can't be censored reliably (e.g. live interviews or shows where someone can go off script), while still creating a disincentive to violate the terms of the license.

Any of these publishers could sell tapes or dvds of these shows and face no fines whatsoever. Similarly, they could air them on the internet or on cable television that is not subject to public control of content. There's no restrictions on the content itself, there's restriction on the use of publicly owned bandwidth.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by cardiffspaceman on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:27PM (#22798950)
> I think "free speech" on the US side is highly overrarted

I think it is properly rated. If you only have restrictions against vocabulary then you still have all the other liberty and you can advocate a repeal of the law that bugs you.

I suspect the censorship you were noticing was self-censorship in order to avoid adverse public reaction.

A legendary animated show spells out that you can only use the word "shit" metaphorically, e.g. "I feel like shit". I have to admit that most of the time I prefer people would go easy on my ears if they have to talk literally about defecation.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by kenned3 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @06:24PM (#22808099)
I guess the core quesgtion is what makes it so special in the US vs any one of the many other countries with similiar "Free speech" laws?
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by lostlogin on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:09PM (#22798814)
Misread your comment as “7 letter words you can’t say on TV”. I’ve spent way too long looking for offensive 7 letter words. It seems that for a word to be truely offensive it is usually very short.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by cperciva on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:33PM (#22798987)
A term used in reference to African Americans comes to mind, although maybe it's stretching to count the plural of an offensive 6 letter word.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by hermitdev on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:14PM (#22800042)
"7 words you can't say on TV" was a great George Carlin standup special.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by dathinab on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:24PM (#22798919)
Wikipedia:

> only prevents government restrictions on speech, not restrictions imposed by private individuals or businesses unless they are acting on behalf of the government.

Which means the US right of free speech is somewhat weak compared to some other countries.

Especially it means that any company working "in favor" of the government but not "for it" could very well restrict free speech.

I never understood why anyone from the US think they have a "very strong protection" of free speech.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:56PM (#22799103)
> any company working "in favor" of the government but not "for it" could very well restrict free speech

I don't follow what you're trying to say here? A private company can do as it pleases because an employee's speech could conflict with its business interests. In some cases, other federal, state, or local laws offer additional protections to the employee (ex California provides very strong protections for employee political speech).

The idea is that the government isn't allowed to restrict your speech, but it also can't force you to interact with someone you don't want to. If you say things that offend people, the consequences are your problem to deal with.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by dathinab on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @08:28AM (#22802537)
Facebook could decide that LGBTQ+ people are offensive and strongly restrict theire free speech even for non LGBTQ+ topics (sure there are other regulations to prevent this, but they have much less tooth).

That you have to handle consequences when you insult someone or you IDK openly call for the murder of all ... People that's a different matter I didn't intend to go into.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @04:20PM (#22807084)
> that's a different matter I didn't intend to go into

I don't think you can avoid it though.

What if I personally choose not to associate with people I view as activists? Surely that's my right? What if I start a small business that's very up front about refusing clients who are activists? What if Facebook were to ban the accounts of known activists?

Who gets to set the criteria that determine if a topic or group is protected, what constitutes an insult, etc? Who do these rules apply to - only the largest of businesses or even to individuals? How do you balance such rules against the freedom to choose not to associate with someone? How do you avoid situations in which such rules would constitute a form of forced speech?

If you tell Facebook (using your example) that they have to allow speech on their own platform that they don't agree with, then you had better have a very clear, comprehensive, and unambiguous set of legal tests to apply because you're opening an absolutely enormous can of worms. Worse, Facebook is the _easy_ case because you can construct a reasonably convincing argument that the large public cloud providers have intentionally made themselves a sort of public commons (albeit a strange privately owned and operated one). As you look at progressively smaller businesses that serve fewer customers and have more competition, such an argument begins to break down.

I can see the reasoning that a forum (ex Reddit) or web host (ex Cloudflare) is a platform provider and should be required to be neutral, similar to the DMCA Safe Harbor provisions. But I can also see legitimate concerns arising if (for example) YouTube was forced to host videos that they felt tarnished their brand or (for example) Reddit had been legally prevented from banning /r/watchpeopledie.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by gbronner on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:48PM (#22799930)
The US has a very flexible labor market that allows for easy entry and exit, but can appear (and be) ruthless in its drive for efficiency.

Europe is great for workers who get lucky enough to get a contract (French unemployment is often 2-3x US unemployment), don't want to leave, and don't want to be rich.

Average US GDP per capita is 35% higher than France and Britain, despite having large numbers of poorly educated immigrants. Furthermore, tax rates are much lower in the US than in Europe, so people can actually consume quite a bit more.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by dmitrygr on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:06PM (#22798783)
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by saagarjha on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:32PM (#22798530)
Many people don't like unions, and most companies heavily discourage their employees from joining one.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by hcknwscommenter on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:36PM (#22798553)
In particular, many working class people who would benefit from strong unions are opposed to unions, or even if they are not opposed do not consider how their voting patterns/choices affect union viability.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by cosmodisk on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:37PM (#22799006)
Not sure why you got downvoted for simply raising valid questions,but here we are. I am a European as well,lived in 4 different countries in Europe and they were all so much different. Americans could have whatever they want, including free higher education, healthcare and strong employment laws.The country is rich enough to be able to support it. However, the culture of the country is different and that culture right now doesn't want all those things for one reason or another. Some are because of lack of education or simply experience,some are purely ideological,while others have some logical and educated opinions on why it shouldn't be the case. Unless there's a dramatic shift in opinions,for one reason or another, these things won't happen. A very good example of this is the tipping system: the restaurant owners love it because they don't need to pay for it.The clients kind of like it because they do feel in charge and they 'reward' waiter for the service they believe was worthwhile. The waiter thinks he's doing great because his base salary is so piss poor that any extra coin or note look like a lottery ticket.So all the stakeholders are happy. You could even make career out of it,if you are really good at it.In most European countries, waiter's job is usually something a student does or someone who doesn't have any other options. The job is seen as something anyone could do with 5 min trainin. There's no aspiration to become a really really good waiter,who understands when to approach a customer,when ask when not to ask and all the hidden and subtle signs customers make during the evening. And the job usually doesn't pay that much,unless there's tipping involved ( it varies a lot between European countries). Which one is better?
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Reelin on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:22PM (#22799245)
> A very good example of this is the tipping system ... So all the stakeholders are happy.

As a recent example in my state, a local establishment raised wages, raised prices, and strictly disallowed tips. I thought it was a great idea, but apparently sales fell and there were complaints from both wait staff and customers. They promptly switched back.

> Which one is better?

Honestly? The European one IMO because it actively prevents the exploitation of workers.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by mulmen on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:55PM (#22799963)
Some people do not tip at all so I am sure they were unhappy about the higher prices. Did the restaurant raise wages at or above the level their top employee was earning with tips? If it was a cent less than that i can understand why employees were unhappy.

There is immense cultural momentum behind tipping culture.

Where I live it is common to have a 15+% gratuity added to the tab automatically and then an optional extra tip that goes to the full staff. This seems to be a reasonable compromise.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by barry-cotter on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:34PM (#22800138)
Americans are much richer than Europeans so this doesn’t seem like an obvious choice. As of 2011 the UK and France were poorer than all but two US states, Germany poorer than all but six[1]. That understates how much richer the US is. Look at average household consumption [2]. The US, 5% of the human race, is behind Hong Kong, a city state and almost $10,000 ahead of Switzerland. Average individual consumption would probably show the US as number 1 given bigger households than either Hong Kong or Switzerland. And as far as working conditions go in the US it’s generally actually possible to get a job. All of Southern Europe and most of Northern Europe have higher unemployment than the US and has for decades.

[1] https://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/americas-economic-succe...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_househo...

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by fzeroracer on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @12:20AM (#22800316)
Unfortunately there's a lot of FUD over unions here and how they ruin things, employ lazy workers, are corrupt etc and therefore don't deserve to exist.

Of course the great irony is all of the arguments against unions also applies directly to corporations, yet those same people that are against unions don't really like to talk about the idea of abolishing corporations. Usually those arguments turn into 'one bad apple' or 'they'll be out-competed' or something about the free market, never mind that unions operate on the same free market principle as corporations.

Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by smabie on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @10:40PM (#22809556)
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by smabie on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @12:43AM (#22800401)
You're not that lucky, I can literally make 5x more in the US as a software engineer than in Europe.
Re:A new weapon in arbitration: sheer volume by Gatsky on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:33PM (#22798539)
Yes exactly. Perhaps the pandemic will change this, but probably not.