Personal responsibility = the idea that human beings choose, instigate, or otherwise cause their own actions.
Stupidity = behavior that shows a lack of good sense or judgment.
Reports from China, South Korea and France have suggested efficacy in humans against COVID-19.
Chloroquine is a particularly funny example because they have already tried it as an antiviral drug several times without any efficacy.
I've seen the one situation of chloroquine showing promise in vitro against SARS CoV but no others. Is there literature on others?
The amount for an overdose is only around 3X a regular dose (2g vs 600mg) In contrast, most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose.
See this paper for a very interesting discussion of the topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4412688/
Acetaminophen has a therapeutic index of close to 8, much better than chloroquine.
Two points on the topic of OTC drugs in the US:
1. Unfortunately you can buy Lithium as a supplement in the US. I have seen bottles of it for sale on Amazon.
2. Having seen enough accidental (not to mention intentional) overdoses from Acetaminophen, I wouldn't be so fast to act like the therapeutic index is wide enough to be treated as "safe". Anything with a narrow therapeutic window needs to be weighed carefully before use. I hope your take away from my comment wasn't that I think chloroquine is "safe": merely that there are a lot of drugs with narrow windows, and there are trade-offs associated with their use. I included that paper because it discusses this very explicitly.
You are correct that there is a "gray market" for some compounds. The FDA won't come after you for selling lithium carbonate as long as you're not touting it as a medicine. I assume that if it became widespread enough and people got injured, those products would be pulled off the market pretty quickly.
My comments of the TI for acetaminophen was more that it was larger than that for chloroquine. No drug is "safe", but some are safer than others.
TCAs barely used any longer.
Acetaminophen doesn’t belong in this conversation with the other drugs.
I don't see why not? It's a good example where the max therapeutic dose (4000mg/day) is within 2X of the toxic dose range (7500mg-10000mg/day). And even the max therapeutic dose can be toxic to the liver.
And it's exceptionally easy to accidentally overdose if you don't read product labels, since you could be taking multiple products that contain it.
It doesn’t belong in convo with other drugs because it requires far less monitoring. It’s also not taken chronically like the other drugs. Or shouldn’t be, at least.
Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause for calls to Poison Control Centers (>100,000/year) and accounts for more than 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and an estimated 458 deaths due to acute liver failure each year.Data from the U.S. Acute Liver Failure Study Group registry of more than 700 patients with acute liver failure across the United States implicates acetaminophen poisoning in nearly 50% of all acute liver failure in this country. Available in many single or combination products, acetaminophen produces more than 1 billion US dollars in annual sales for Tylenol products alone. It is heavily marketed for its safety compared to nonsteroidal analgesics. By enabling self-diagnosis and treatment of minor aches and pains, its benefits are said by the Food and Drug Administration to outweigh its risks. It still must be asked: Is this amount of injury and death really acceptable for an over-the-counter pain reliever?
If you think acetaminophen is qualitatively the same as warfarin or lithium, you need to go to med school.
That said, any physician who sees a patient taking 4g of acetaminophen a day chronically is going to tell them to reduce their dosage, switch to another drug, or stop.
It’s not safe in the long run.
> NHS coronavirus advice
> There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse.
> But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you.
> If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first.
> Updated: 17 March 2020
Over-the-counter use of paracetamol (aka acetaminophen) for fever reduction is entirely standard medical advice, not specific to coronavirus at all.
> Asked about the study, WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier told reporters in Geneva the UN health agency's experts were "looking into this to give further guidance."
> "In the meantime, we recommend using rather paracetamol, and do not use ibuprofen as a self-medication. That's important," he said.
Paracetamol = acetaminophen: https://www.drugs.com/paracetamol.html
> To help yourself stay well while you're at home [...] take paracetamol to help ease your symptoms
Strictly speaking it's on the self-isolation if symptomatic or living with someone who does page, and not necessarily aimed directly at confirmed cases, but you also get the same advice at the end of the NHS online advice service if you present with (mild) COVID-19 symptoms:
> How to look after your symptoms at home[:...] take paracetamol
At one point it was the only drug they recommended for fever reduction, but they retracted their statement about avoiding ibuprofen
https://www.livescience.com/ibuprofen-coronavirus-symptoms.h...
Perhaps for over the counter medication. This statement is false when we consider drugs requiring a prescription especially those used mainly in acute care or hospital situation. There are all sorts of medications in that class for which a double dose will straight up kill you.
In discussing such situations we often use terms like "patient safety" and "medical malpractice".
The arguments for against this drug seem center around the person recommending it, not its actual efficacy.
Stupidity = behavior that shows a lack of good sense or judgment.