News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by FerretFred on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:15AM (#22664278)
“I believe most members of the public want to do the right thing,” said Sonja Rasmussen, professor of pediatrics and epidemiology at the University of Florida and a former executive at the CDC, in an email. “It’s essential that people know the implications of their actions.

Nope. Just wrong. you only have to look at peoples' behaviour in parts of the UK at the weekend to realise that even if some people know the implications of their actions they don't care. The UK has largely degenerated into an "entitled" society, and any veneer of sensibility and fairness has been stripped away with a vengeance. Unfortunately for us, the Prime Minister's advisers seem to think like Prof. Rasmussen and now we're in a dire situation.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by brootstrap on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:21AM (#22664333)
This is happening across the pond as well. My wife's best friend was texting her saying she was going on a first date with a dude. She was asking for date ideas , in corona virus season. We are just like, paige shut the fuck up. This was 7 days ago. Just yesterday she texts my wife again saying she went to the mall with her friend. She says wow all the stores are mostly closed and the fitting rooms for trying clothes are not open...

this person is a fucking doctor. A DOCTOR. and she cant comprehend the severity of the situation.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:39AM (#22664510)
I think a lot of people - including me to an extent - are about to come crashing into the real world at 1000 mph. The difference is that I've suspected this was in the post for a long time. It only takes a few hours or less on a plane from almost any part of the world to reach somewhere that demonstrates clearly how utterly detached from reality advanced nations have become.
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by badpun on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:29AM (#22665013)
If the virus hits hard some poor country, we'll be able to compare and verify if the advanced countries are detached from reality, or is it really just baseline human selfishness.
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by prox on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:49AM (#22664603)
Many people can’t imagine if they are not directly effected by something. It is not necessarily they are not intelligent in certain domains, but they have trouble seeing beyond the familiar.

All this is explained in Black Swan by Nicholas Taleb, everyone should read it! Please do it now.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by bryanrasmussen on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:51AM (#22664614)
someone I know in Italy, Lombardy, decided one month ago to go on a ski vacation.

It was ok though, because they were going with a scientist and a doctor so they must know what they are doing!

When they got back from the vacation they spent a week going out to the park when they could with the kids.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by durge on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:29AM (#22664411)
I think the ties that bind in the Anglosphere are pretty much done for. These countries are basically malls that people move-to to get stuff, I think we need a little more collectivism - at least on the state/provincial level to be better balanced (US perspective).
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by rscho on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:28AM (#22664406)
Just to put that in context, MD big bosses were still laughing dismissively at us for worrying on Monday evening.

A week later, the hospital is at 2/3 from max capacity and they're pissing their pants. This doesn't stop them from engaging in academic research for their own interests and assuring the public that all will be fine, though.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:33AM (#22664464)
> The UK has largely degenerated into an "entitled" society, and any veneer of sensibility and fairness has been stripped away with a vengeance.

Why should people do the right thing when they feel they have nothing in common with their fellow countrymen? It used to be the case that we had a strong shared national culture that enforced certain standards of behaviour, and thus one had a stake in maintaining these standards due to collective reciprocity, but we've been told for decades that said national culture is hateful and outdated and must be destroyed without any decent replacement. I cite Orwell:

'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality.'

'If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'

edit: yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn't go down easily.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by fader on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:47AM (#22664591)
> edit: yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn't go down easily.

It might be worth considering if maybe you are the one in the wrong here. Could it be that the majority of people disagree with you not because your view is "uncomfortable" but because it's not truth? Your phrasing certainly reads to me like reactionary defensiveness when presented with legitimate criticism of certain aspects of this culture and a refusal to evaluate things from any other point of view than your own.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by Chris2048 on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:03AM (#22664757)
If that was the case, wouldn't there be rebuttals instead of straight downvotes?
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by fader on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:34AM (#22665047)
Not necessarily. Once someone has established that they won't engage in good faith ("told for decades that said national culture is hateful and outdated and must be destroyed without any decent replacement" isn't exactly an opening for discussion) it's wasted effort to engage.

It's still worth hoping they'll at least consider that downvotes aren't because people hate and fear the secret truth that they are the only one smart enough to see, though.

("Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong.")

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by mikestew on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:48AM (#22664598)
yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn't go down easily

Even in middle-age, my ears aren’t so bad that I don’t know a dog whistle when I hear it.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:26AM (#22664987)
I'm not saying anything particularly controversial here. Even Gordon Brown - our last Labour Prime Minister - recognised as such and was seeking to create some kind of coalescing new national identity. When even the left recognise it as a problem, you know something's up.
Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by Chris2048 on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:11AM (#22664833)
By dog whistle, you are suggesting what? By "shared national culture" he's talking about something racist?

Isn't that exactly the "national culture is hateful and outdated" notion he's talking about?

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by fader on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:52AM (#22665188)
Yes, characterizing any anti-racist efforts as being "told for decades that said national culture is hateful" and "must be destroyed without any decent replacement" is a dogwhistle.

This sort of cherry picking and sliding definition of terms while pretending to be "just asking some questions", however, is known as sealioning: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sealioning

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by Chris2048 on Monday March 23, 2020 @01:47PM (#22666615)
> characterizing any anti-racist efforts as..

I know what a dog-whistle is, I'm asking why you think you know OP is referring to "anti-racist efforts".

> This sort of cherry picking..

What are you referring to as "this"? my comments? I don't see the words you quoted (""just asking some questions").

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by shawnz on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:42AM (#22664542)
> Why should people do the right thing when they feel they have nothing in common with their fellow countrymen?

.. why would that ever be a condition for doing the right thing? What does having a shared culture have to do with having humanity?

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:24AM (#22664964)
> What does having a shared culture have to do with having humanity?

I'm not trying to kick off a flamewar but this is hopelessly naive - divide and conquer has been used for thousands of years - just look at Rwanda for a recent dreadful example.

With the UK being a diverse multiracial population it's even more important to attempt to unify everyone around some kind of shared values etc. Otherwise you end up with people living right next door to each other that are mentally living in completely different universes. It should be obvious that this is not an ideal starting point for rallying a population around a unified goal.

The USA used to be seen as particularly successful in absorbing everyone no matter their origins, and giving them a strong identity as American that superceded everything else. Not sure if that's still valid though.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by mywittyname on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:10PM (#22665369)
> edit: yeah, suspected a dose of uncomfortable truth wouldn't go down easily.

I suspect you're getting downvoted because your argument is based on the idea that Britons have nothing in common with one another. Which is a clearly false supposition. It comes off as either ignorant of the other nations or low-key racist.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by bryanrasmussen on Monday March 23, 2020 @10:59AM (#22664721)
"Another marked characteristic is the emotional shallowness of people who live in a world of ideas and have little contact with physical reality" - George Orwell.

"Even the devil can quote Orwell to his purpose" - me.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:32AM (#22665032)
> "Another marked characteristic is the emotional shallowness of people who live in a world of ideas and have little contact with physical reality" - George Orwell.

Care to elaborate? This seems like a personal attack.

> "Even the devil can quote Orwell to his purpose" - me.

Well fair enough, that made me chuckle.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by bryanrasmussen on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:55AM (#22665217)
>Care to elaborate? This seems like a personal attack.

Your post seemed to me mainly composed of

1. some quotes from Orwell

2. a knock against that all-purpose bogeyman "the Left" as an enabler of fascism. Which is funny how often the Left is an enabler of the ultra-right, but the Right never is.

3. and some references to such vague things as shared national culture. Which, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it - a concern with a shared national culture is really top priority with those nasty people the Left enables.

All these abstractions show someone who maybe lives in a world of ideas, and I thought it's funny that Orwell in the same part where he talked about the nasty Left and so forth, also noted this marked characteristic as something that was one of the roots of their problems.

Finally, and I didn't point this out before but I shall now, I doubt that Orwell's Left is the same as today, mortality being what it is, and the cause of personal disaffection from the national culture might not have the same causes as it did in the 20s-40s.

The Left that makes saying "God Save the Queen" unpopular has been replaced by media that makes it old-fashioned and silly (Look at that Silly John Lydon up there, done up like my granny!), and while I know that it is often pleasant to point at the media and say Look, the Left - I think there is just as much reason to point at it and say Look, the Corporations!

Although since saving the Queen has been out of fashion for longer than I've been alive I have to think there may be bonds less nation-state sounding that have been worn through more recently that we could worry about, and whatever those bonds should be, if we were to agree to worry about them being broken I would think it were more reasonable to accuse multinational corporations of destroying them than a powerless political viewpoint. Or, if we were to choose a political viewpoint as the chief source of our woes, then choose one with more power at the moment - such as The Right.

on edit: however I didn't downvote you although your on edit about truth at the end did put it right on the border. Because who really knows what the truth is.

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by growlist on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:09PM (#22665357)
So it was a personal attack then?

My last word: we should hardly be surprised that the product of a couple of generations of laissez-faire leftist moulding acts as if it doesn't have to listen to authority. This is precisely the intention of said leftism...

Re:The Pandemic Is Showing Us How to Live with Uncertainty by bryanrasmussen on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:30PM (#22665594)
Are you talking about the parliamentary left and right here?

"laissez-faire leftist" are two words otherwise seldom heard together.

If so, I don't think Orwell was discussing Parliamentary left and right divisions, but cultural ones. And so in his case "laissez-faire leftist" wouldn't make much sense.

on edit: oops, sorry, I saw it was your last word. So I guess I will never know what it is you're actually talking about.