Generally they were clickbaity articles with headlines stating exactly that, but content stating the more reasonable idea that masks/gloves don't work (and may in fact cause more problems than they solve) if you don't use them correctly.
eg. someone buys a mask, keeps using the same mask day after day while handling the mask in way that may make the inside of it a contaminated surface, etc.
> Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!
>?They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
Saying there aren’t enough for healthcare workers isn’t. Save respirators and surgical masks for healthcare workers. Wear a mask if you’re going outside even if it’s just a tshirt covering your face.
Yes, they would. The healthcare worker may already be sick, and are regularly closely interacting with people that have compromised immune systems. An illness that wouldn't slow down a nurse may kill a patient.
Makeshift masks don't necessarily even help in that situation, become a liability when contaminated, and putting it on then removing it causes additional risk.
Don't worry, people aren't morons and have been using masks in Japan and other countries for decades just fine.
Yes, masks can hold contaminated droplets --that's their purpose. When people don't use masks on the other hand, those droplets that would have remained on the mask now end up everywhere else, and now you have a far more spread vectors with basically everything being potentially contaminated.
Using a mask ensures that a lesser percentage of your contaminated droplets end up in other places.
First, masks work better when both sides use them. In Japan, healthy people wear masks as well during flu seasons because it makes it offers better protection than wearing nothing.
Second, in the specific context of COVID-19, how do you know they're healthy? That's the key, because asymptomatic cases are estimated to be the main driver of this pandemic by far. And it's only worsened by the fact that only few tests are available.
> Third, of course masks work — maybe not perfectly and not all to the same degree, but they provide some protection. Their use has always been advised as part of the standard response to being around infected people, especially for people who may be vulnerable.
Have you seen the pictures of healthcare workers using "effective" mask protocol? Have you also noticed that said protocol almost always includes goggles?
If I can't trace the seal lines on your face for an hour after you remove your mask, it isn't doing shit for you as a healthy person.
If you are sick, however, that's a different story. The mask prevents droplets from being spewed out of your mouth at 120km/hr (70mph for the heathens) when you sneeze.
Just because it isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it's not doing anything. Exposure isn't binary--the quantity matters.
Healthcare workers have very little room for error because they're constantly exposed to large quantities of the virus. For them, blocking 80% of droplets from a cough is useless, of course, because they're surrounded by infected coughing people all day long. Even 99% isn't good enough for them. But for someone going to the supermarket once a week, blocking 80% might mean the difference between a deadly level of exposure and a level that their immune system can fight off.
Also, this whole "only sick people should wear masks" refrain rather exasperatingly ignores that we don't know who's sick and who isn't. That's exactly why this virus is so difficult to contain. Supply issues aside, the only way to make sure all the sick people are wearing masks is to get everyone wearing masks.
And your argument exasperatingly continues to assume infinite availability of masks.
The masks most help when people are coughing or sneezing significantly. That's really obvious last I checked.
Someone not coughing or sneezing is spreading the virus roughly the same amount whether they wear a mask or not. Covid-19 doesn't actually seem to produce nasal secretions like the flu does so surface contact spread isn't quite the same.
If you want to spread good advice, tell healthy people to start wearing their glasses instead of contact lenses. It's probably more effective than a mask on a healthy person--especially since it prevents people from poking at their eyes with dirty fingers.
Except the part where I wrote "supply issues aside". Of course there's a limited supply. That doesn't mean masks wouldn't be effective if we had enough of them. I think we should prioritize making more, not just for healthcare workers, but for everyone.
"Someone not coughing or sneezing is spreading the virus roughly the same amount whether they wear a mask or not."
Scientific consensus so far is that coughing, sneezing, and talking is responsible for the majority of spread. Surface spread is secondary.
"probably more effective than a mask on a healthy person"
Again, we don't know who's healthy and who isn't.
In Japan, people use masks to protect the community, which includes themselves as well as people around them.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551...
Masks provide two benefits. They protect other people from you when your are ill but currently asymptomatic and they protect you from "splashes" caused by people coughing and sneezing without covering their mouth.
This downplay is one of the major reasons for the slow public adoption of safety measures.
If you are healthy, masks do not prevent you from getting sick.
It's a fairly easy misunderstanding to make.
Nothing short of a hazmat suit will prevent you from catching the virus but all of the above will reduce the chances of you catching it. There aren’t enough respirator, or indeed surgical masks for healthcare workers, never mind everyone else. But we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Additionally, if a homemade mask were to become contaminated, repeated handling could put you and others at greater risk.
Not using a mask as community will ensure that virtually everywhere is potentially contaminated and you are under a larger risk and at all times --not isolated to the moment when you remove the mask (which people typically do at a place where they can wash/cleanse their hands anyway).
So for crying out loud, please stop spreading this nonsense! Masks don't replace washing hands, general hygiene and social distancing, it supplements them. And of course they do work: https://doi.org/10.7326/0003-4819-151-7-200910060-00142 https://doi.org/10.1177/003335491012500206
How does a healthy person wearing a mask prevent contamination?
How do you know they're healthy? That's the key, because asymptomatic cases are estimated to be the main driver of this pandemic by far. And it's only worsened by the fact that only few tests are available.
Health care workers are required to use masks to protect immunocompromised patients.
In Japan, people use masks to protect the community and goes both ways ---which is why it works.
Protect them from what? Their potentially disease carrying bodily fluids.
I don't have the slightest clue what misinformation you think I'm spreading. You have responded to four of my posts, and none of the replies give any reason to think healthy people should wear masks.
1. Masks do work. Wearing a mask obviously provides a better protection than nothing for a healthy person.
You can also read a few studies https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/003335491012500206 https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/744899/facemasks-hand-hyg...
Mask isn't a substitute for hygiene and social-distancing, it's a complementary countermeasure.
2. You don't know for sure a person is healthy right now, and asymptomatic cases are the main drivers of the contagion.
The misinformation you're persistently perpetuating is that US surgeon general is right in saying
> Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!
>They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!
which is not only wrong but also outright dangerous. How dangerous is this? Look at the spread rate and the number of cases in US vs Japan.
Yes, there is panic buying. The Japanese government is handling the situation by managing the responsible distribution of the masks itself. Like most countries, US may not be able to meet the full demand immediately for the masks that are necessary to slow down the spread, and yes, health care workers do need them, but that can't justify giving dangerous advice and lies to public.
The first study only advocated wearing a mask when sick,or within three feet of someone who was sick, and concluded
>there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission
And from the second
>facemasks seemed to prevent household transmission of influenza virus when implemented within 36 hours of index patient symptom onset.
So both say "wear a facemask when sick or interacting with the sick."
>You don't know for sure a person is healthy right now, and asymptomatic cases are the main drivers of the contagion.
Asymptomatic doesn't mean healthy though. If you feel unwell in anyway a mask is a good idea. Erring on the side of caution is different than everyone always wearing one.
>How dangerous is this? Look at the spread rate and the number of cases in US vs Japan.
Aren't masks common in both South Korea and China?
That said, if you are asymptotic you aren't coughing or sneezing, so I'm unsure of how helpful a mask would be.
Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle:
> In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission and should be encouraged during outbreak situations.
See the part about secondary transmission which you deleted? Also remember that unlike in that study (which was conducted in households with a known sick patient), in reality, there are sick people (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) whom you don't know in advance that they're sick and do not wear masks --which is something you can't fix by education and instead have to implement mass quarantine because now everything could be infectious and people have to avoid everything.
Second study:
> In conclusion, our results suggest that hand hygiene and facemasks can reduce influenza virus transmission if implemented early after symptom onset in an index patient.
And make sure you also read the word influenza, and remember that with COVID-19, the main driver is asymptomatic cases by far. Which means everyone should wear a mask.
> Aren't masks common in both South Korea and China?
Yes, masks are common in China and South Korea now, which is reflected in their low transmission rates: China 0.06%, South Korea: 2.0%. Compare that to 35% in US. Initial outbreaks in China and South Korea were driven by people not using masks. The spread rates plummeted after the implementation of countermeasures which include, surprise, use of masks by everyone!
> That said, if you are asymptotic you aren't coughing or sneezing, so I'm unsure of how helpful a mask would be.
Coughing isn't the only way people spread water droplets ---people do that just by talking. Virus is also carried in aerosol that remain in the air for longer periods. Coronavirus isn't the only thing that cause sneezing or coughing (especially in this season, so there could be people who think they just have pollen allergies while in reality they are symptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2). And regardless, it obviously is better than nothing. Yes, it's not going to be 100% effective, but even a 1% difference will be the difference between life and death for some people in your community.
Really, what are you trying to achieve by pushing this nonsense? If all people in the US don't start using masks already, they won't be able to achieve the success in suppressing the spread rates seen in Japan, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong (all are countries where mask usage by everyone is high) within the same time frame. The growth will be stronger, there will be far more sick people and more and more fatalities. Is this what you want? If not, just stop, please, and start acting responsible as a member of your community. Please.
I cut there for brevity, as it clearly means "the hand sanitizer and facemask usage outlined and tested in the study should be encouraged." You can't ignore everything else in the paper and say they are advocating everyone wears a mask.
With the second study, even what you quote supports my position. "After symptom onset" means "when sick."
>especially in this season, so there could be people who think they just have pollen allergies while in reality they are symptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2
If you are coughing or sneezing, you should be wearing a mask.
>If not, just stop, please.
So far, you have posted two articles that support my claim, and made references to various statistics implying face mask usage is responsible for the good stats. I am not spouting nonsense that will kill people, this is the WHO's position.
You are lying, you know you are lying, and you keep lying.
1. And you can't ignore the context and the conclusion of the study and cherry pick half sentences. What a convenient "brevity" that is. They do encourage use of masks in their limited context. Yes they don't say everyone, they say contagious people, and as I explained to 10 times already, in the context of a disease with asymptomatic spread, the requirement translates to everyone.
And for the nth time, mask isn't a substitute for hygiene and social distancing (which apparently is your faulty understanding because you keep bringing it up), it is complementary and effective countermeasure.
What part of this is so hard to understand?
2. "After symptom onset" is the contagious period for flu. For SARS-CoV-2, it starts before symptom onset. Meaning potentially everyone, again.
So no, both studies do encourage the use of masks for everyone.
And then there are indisputable, order of magnitude differences in infection rate numbers between countries that use and don't use masks --which you're also conveniently but consistently silent about. Try going to Japan and telling people that masks don't work ---but also tell them that US discouraged its people from using masks and has an infection spread rate of 35% with over 38000 infected people and nearly 400 deaths in a shorter timespan. See the reaction you get. Actually, no, I take it back, please don't ever come to Japan. Please stay wherever you are, we don't want people like you.
You are bent on harming yourself and people around you, and I'm done talking to you. The last thing I am going to say to you is: you are a disgrace and a harmful element to your society, to this world, and I am happy that at least my country is giving the right directions, doing the right things and that mine is a society where people like you get the reaction that they deserve.
I am not. You are being overly passionate and stating things are obvious facts without sufficient data. Even the prevalence of asymptomatic spreading is unclear right now.
>And you can't ignore the context and the conclusion of the study and cherry pick half sentences
I didn't ignore it, a studies recommendation is meaningless without the experimental results. I commented on the results. Similarly, you don't need the part I omitted to say...
>in the context of a disease with asymptomatic spread, the requirement translates to everyone.
This is not how studies work. You can't use this to assume long term use of masks by those without symptoms is beneficial. That kind of use may have unaccounted risks.
>And for the nth time, mask isn't a substitute for hygiene and social distancing (which apparently is your faulty understanding because you keep bringing it up),
I have no idea what part of my last post you think brought this up, the quotes from the studies? At no point have I tried to claim masks were a substitute for hygiene or social distancing, I don't know what led you to that idea.
>What part of this is so hard to understand?
The part where you attack something I didn't say is confusing.
>--but also tell them that US discourage their people from using masks and has an infection spread rate of 35% with over 30000 infected people and nearly 400 deaths in a shorter timespan.
It's a bit hard to talk with someone who accuses me of "cherry picking" data and then makes these random comparisons that ignore most of the world and any other potential factors.
>The last thing I am going to say to you is: you are a disgrace and a harmful element to your society, to this world,
All for following the recommendations of organizations like the WHO. Have a nice day, I hope you are fortunate enough to stay healthy, and remember to properly dispose of your masks after use.
We're told that masks do not work