AA may be the most effective of the options studied but that doesn't mean it is a successful program. It just means it is the most effective of what are generally non-successful programs.

> that doesn't mean it is a successful program

Chronic Alcoholics had limbs (hands) cut off during early history. It wasn't very successful comparatively or maybe it wasn't "the best". The best known behavioral solution is the best behavioral solution qualitatively (which is a mix of programs, statistically). But calling such a program (as AA) something non-successful means you've using different criterion than the bar of sustained sobriety and reduced frequency of relapse. It's not clear what differentiates successful from non-successful in your estimation?

The silent majority of sober people are those who quit drinking using self-help. Those people don't talk about their program.

My own impression is that AA would not have worked for me. Too preachy. Too pessimistic. For me, what helped was psychotherapy, joining a meditation group, an antidepressant, and solving the underlying root cause of my drinking (a failing relationship). I haven’t had an alcoholic drink in 4 years, and I don’t miss it.

Do you have a link or citation for that? Is this just your impression that you are relating?

No citation, but consider this: before the creation of AA (1930-something), are we to believe no one ever stopped drinking successfully?

Are you aware that you're arguing in bad faith throughout this thread, or do you think these are strong points you're making? "Someone must've quitted drinking before AA existed" => "the silent majority of quitters do so via self-help" is nowhere close to a valid conclusion. Particularly for someone who's prided themself on their rationality elsewhere..

You could always have an AA meeting in VR Chat. In fact, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.

With the recent virus concerns, I saw a number of posts about: "Hey don't forget there are online AA meetings".

Doing it virtually makes it hard to retain the "anonymous" part of AA.

That's an interesting point. I think that's a different sense of the word "anonymous," though.

There's a strict sense of the word "anonymous" that is from the tradition of writing: an anonymous letter, for example, or the sense in which 4chan users are anonymous. It means "this person has no unique identity at all, other than what one can infer from this written word." This is the kind of anonymity that e.g. Facebook has fought against with their policy that accounts should have real names.

There is another sense in which "anonymous" is used that is common to all kinds of secret societies, though, and that is simply public anonymity as a member of the society. You don't wear a pin or make it known that you are an active member, except maybe to specific individuals that have need of that knowledge. But within the society itself, you very much have a distinct identity.

That isn't how the anonymous part of alcoholics anonymous works. The twelve traditions lay out a better explanation, I think, but you are not totally anonymous in the group meeting, use of first names only when speaking and interacting, but friendships evolve from that.

Quick edit: The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous: https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf

i feel like it would be easier to retain anonymity in VR vs a physical location where you could be recorded in, or have your car spotted, or have any of the other participants remember your face.

Anonymous is at the level of press, radio and films...

^^ Tradition 11. Tradition 12 states:

"Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities."

While it is easy to take the word anonymity at face value, in my opinion as an alcoholic active in AA, anonymity as it is mentioned here in tradition 12 deals more with ego and pride. When you walk into a meeting, you leave "what you are" at the door and walk in as "who you are." This translates into practices of not using honorifics. A judge isn't "Your Honor" at a meeting. A priest isn't "Father." All are equal, and all are just one drink away from being drunk. Thus, placing AA's principals before our own personalities.

The "anonymous" part of AA is really disingenuous if you stick with the program. People get to know each other pretty well.

The kids still talk and hang out. I don't think there's anything to worry about.