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Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by beefman on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @11:42AM (#22536385)
The dangers of radiation on Mars are greatly exaggerated. The dangers of low gravity on Titan and elsewhere are greatly understated, as is the immense distance between Mars and Titan.

A floating habitat on Venus is harder and less attractive in every way than a rotating space station, which is clearly our next milestone in space. In terms of planets though, there's a reason Mars gets the most attention: it's obviously the best choice.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by rootbear on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:41PM (#22537002)
I, too, have concerns about how well humans will thrive in low gravity (the moon, Mars, etc). Over time, we could evolve a branch of humanity, "Homo ares", for Mars, but it won't be easy. Venus is just a tragic waste of a planet. So close to Earth in size, so wrong in every other way.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by wmeredith on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:57PM (#22537153)
> Over time, we could evolve a branch of humanity, "Homo ares"

These were called Belters (as in asteroid belt) in the excellent book series The Expanse, which is also an excellent sci-fi show available on Amazon.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ghaff on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:09PM (#22537267)
The Expanse is quite good. But the earth/Mars/Belt differences are mostly cultural at least in the TV series. The "Belters" meme in SF has been around for a long time though. See Larry Niven for example. (And I'm sure it's older than that.)
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by JdeBP on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:43PM (#22537612)
Jeff Prucher's Brave new words gives its earliest attestation for the word as Niven's Warriors in 1966.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ghaff on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:54PM (#22537743)
I would have guessed Heinlein but I don't see evidence he used that particular term although he had similar tropes in his books--e.g. Loonies in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by JdeBP on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:04PM (#22537859)
For similar tropes, see the meteor miners in E.E. Smith's Grey Lensman.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by rootbear on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @04:21PM (#22539271)
Oh, that looks like an interesting book! I read a lot of Niven back in college and I wondered if he invented the word "Belter", for Asteroid Belt dwellers.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by rthomas6 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:11PM (#22537932)
In the books it's MUCH more than cultural, to the point that belters are unable to visit Earth without some difficulty due to too much gravity. Belters are described as much taller and more slender that people born and raised on Earth.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by tomjakubowski on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:03PM (#22537844)
Beltalowdah physiological difficulty in adapting to gravity is a recurring plot point on the show. The culture difference exists in part because no Belter can survive long periods on Earth.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by nitrogen on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:17PM (#22537978)
The novels portray each group has having more significant physiological differences. Naomi is supposed to be quite a bit taller than Holden, for example.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ghaff on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:25PM (#22538047)
Makes sense. Easier to do in books than on the screen, especially a TV show. It's logistically just a lot easier to have everyone look like ordinary humans modulo superficial styling (and acting) differences.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by magduf on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:45PM (#22538863)
Sorry to be pedantic, but no, those people were called "Martians". (His term, "homo ares", is referring to Ares, the god also known as Mars.)

The Belters lived in the Asteroid Belt, and were opposed to both the Terrans and the Martians. The Belters were the most different biologically because the gravity is so low, whereas the Martians got to enjoy the relatively high 1/3 g gravity of Mars.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by logfromblammo on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:22PM (#22537383)
Or evolve a branch of humanity that uses non-biological, radiation-hardened, easily-maintained, low-mass machines, instead of meat that doesn't grow correctly in low acceleration, uses chemical energy storage with no power generation capacity, and which gets scrambled without megagrams of shielding.

That is, develop general AI with a sense of responsibility and filial duty to its parent species, and which won't turn us all into paper clips.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ryanmercer on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:57PM (#22537785)
This has been done in various hard science fiction novels. One series, the name escapes me at the moment, actually has one group of engineered human warriors that are quite different mentally from normal humans but they can survive in vacuum and have some insect-like traits physically. They can just drift through vacuum and quietly attach to the hull of an enemy ship.

Then you have the Old Man's War universe where the soldiers have engineered bodies and synthetic blood that they have control over (they can explode mosquito like creatures that try to feed on them as an example).

B. V. Larson's Star Force series sees characters changed by both nano bots and specifically-grown intelligent (as a colony) vats of bacteria.

Many science fiction series involve brain backus. If I'm not mistaken Peter F. Hamilton has them in his Commonwealth Saga and the Altered Carbon books and show have it. As does the previously mentioned Old Man's War series by Scalzi.

Daniel Suarez's book (his near-future hard science fiction books are quite good) Change Agent involves lots of serious genetic engineering, including changing one's entire appearance (rather dangerously) with a virus.

I think if we can manage to stay alive long enough as a species, we will be able to at least do everything except for the nano bots and possible even those if we get some significant physics and computational breakthroughs.

As a pre-teen in the mid 1990's a friend and I wanted to turn ourselves into anthropormphic creatures not unlike the creatures in the Island of Dr. Moreau (I believe it was actually the 1996 film adaptation that gave us the idea) and figured somehow a bacteriophage could be created to alter a host at a cellular level but we figured you'd need to find a way to selectively edit genes (that now exists with CRISPR and the like), suppress the immune system to prevent death from it overreacting during the process, and control the replication rate so the body wouldn't burn up with fever or have some sort of energy issue. If a couple of bored pre-teens could think that up while playing a MUD one afternoon, someone someday is going to start really tinkering with humans at a serious scale. It's already being done by biohackers.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by peanut_is_yum on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:06PM (#22537872)
> This has been done in various hard science fiction novels. One series, the name escapes me at the moment, actually has one group of engineered human warriors that are quite different mentally from normal humans but they can survive in vacuum and have some insect-like traits physically. They can just drift through vacuum and quietly attach to the hull of an enemy ship.

Pretty sure this was in some book in the Old Man's War series

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ryanmercer on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:11PM (#22537925)
Looks like you are right, 'homo astrum'. https://oldmanswar.fandom.com/wiki/Homo_Astrum

I read entirely too much hard science fiction to remember what comes from where, it's why as much as I'd love to I'll never write a space opera. I'd constantly be afraid I was unintentionally plagiarizing multiple authors.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by svaigsq on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:16PM (#22537332)
Venus has 80% of Earth mass. Mars has 10% of Earth Mass. The simple math suggests, that these planets are destined to be combined in some distant future, but not by current civilization, so there is no real reasons to be concerned about anything at all.

Any of those projects of colonization in space is even greater waste of resources, compared to colonies in northern Canada, Antarctica, artificial islands or underwater cities.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:25PM (#22537417)
I think you underestimate how radically different a world we'd live in if we had and inter solar system logistics network between colonies, earth and asteroids. It would be like another industrial revolution with untold and unimaginable changes. Likely with artificial islands, underwater cities, climate change reversal existing as mere side effects.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:56PM (#22537146)
I've always wondered if Venus was as habitable as Mars on the surface which we'd choose. The lower gravity well of Mars makes it much easier to come back from which is practically a requirement to go there. But like you said, the jury is still out on how well we can live in lower gravity.

Getting back from Venus after just beginning to colonize it may not be possible with current technology.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by logfromblammo on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:50PM (#22537689)
I would choose Venus. The depth of the gravity well is less important when the colonists are being lowered into it from above rather than thrown out from the bottom. If you need something in orbit, you don't drop it down to the planet in the first place.

But as things are, the relative effort to terraform Venus, compared with Mars, is absolutely colossal. It essentially requires a full-blown robotic asteroid mining industry, wherein olivine asteroids are diverted directly to Venus, and magnesium and calcium are mined, sent to Jupiter to produce saturated hydrides, and those sent on to Venus. It will take 1000 years, minimum.

Mars can get realistic results within 200 years, just by diverting water-ice comets and managing temperature.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by magduf on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:50PM (#22538908)
Getting back from Venus is as easy as launching from Earth: i.e., completely doable with present-day technology. The only issue is getting it there to begin with, but that's not really hard, though we'd probably need to launch several rockets here on Earth, and assemble stuff in space, to get all the mass needed for a single launch on Venus. Landing stuff on this hypothetical Venus would be much easier than on Mars, since this Venus has an atmosphere, and Mars only has an "atmosphere" (one that's 1/200 the pressure of Earth's, not really much of one), so we'd be able to use aerobraking, parachutes, etc. In fact, landing stuff on today's Venus is pretty easy, and the Soviets were doing this ages ago; the only problem is that landers didn't last long because of the heat and corrosive atmosphere.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by magduf on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:43PM (#22538838)
Maybe we should work on terraforming it: use various processes to change the atmosphere and stop the runaway greenhouse affect, shed the excess heat into space, and build an earth-normal atmosphere.

However, it does seem like building rotating space stations (like O'Neil cylinders) is much more feasible.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by bobloblaw45 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:14PM (#22537315)
Moon humans would be so weak I bet it would be easy to beat them up and steal all their moon cheese.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by kjs3 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:12PM (#22536686)
Unless you think that the Moon is the obvious next milestone in space.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:32PM (#22536917)
The only thing going for the moon is its proximity to Earth. Mars has more than double the gravity of the moon, an atmosphere, nearly earth-like day night cycle and satellites have a much easier time orbiting mars
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by kjs3 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:07PM (#22537253)
The only thing going for the moon is its proximity to Earth.

Oh...that's all. So let's ignore for just a second the logistical advantages of figuring out how to actually mount a manned mission to build something non-trivial on another body when you're 3 days away, not 6 months away. Pretend that isn't important.

The moon has water, raw materials, enough gravity things don't just float away, abundant solar and we've already figured out how to get people there and back. We already have an MVP to build on.

On the other hand, a manned Mars mission is still an un-funded wank-fantasy with a disturbingly high failure rate for the unmanned attempts.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:17PM (#22537337)
I've mostly addressed this in the siblings comments. Mars has all the same resources and more. The way humans went from the moon's orbit to surface is so far off from how it would be done today I would hardly call it and MVP. Both are too far for any meaningful emergency response. I believe the ongoing work with starship debunks your claim of an "un-funded wank-fantasy". The moon also has a disturbingly high failure rate for the unmanned attempts.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by magduf on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:51PM (#22538939)
You think 3 days is "too far for any meaningful emergency response"? I mean, yeah, if someone needs to be in an ICU within an hour, that's too long, but if they develop a new coronavirus on the Moon, 3 days to get people back to Earth is not bad.

By your logic, it seems like we should just give up on building any bases in this solar system altogether, and just start building a ship to go to Alpha Centauri.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Wednesday March 11, 2020 @11:31AM (#22546630)
I'm advocating to go directly to Mars and skip trying to figure out everything on the Moon first. The Moon is more difficult and has a lot less upsides.

Obviously 3 days is better than 6 months. A lot more can be done with a shorter window. I just don't think it justifies passing up all the upsides Mars has to offer

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by magduf on Wednesday March 11, 2020 @01:04PM (#22547472)
I completely disagree about the Moon being more difficult. We can get to the Moon in 3 days flat. We cannot do that with Mars; to go there, humans have to spend months in space being exposed to hard radiation. With the Moon, that isn't a problem because 3 days cosmic radiation exposure isn't a big deal, as proven by our many landings on the Moon in the 60s-70s.

On top of that, the Moon has proven mineral resources which can be mined and refined on-site a lot easier than trying to do the same on Mars.

Mars is just too far away. If you're going to neglect distance, then we should just skip Mars and go straight to Alpha Centauri or some other star with a bunch of exoplanets.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by kjs3 on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:18PM (#22671548)
Spot on...I have to assume btkramer9 is just a obsessed Zubrin fanboi or so scifi obsessed there's no objectivity. I get that Kerbal Space Program let's a new generation of armchair celestial mechanics say "Delta V!" as though that's all that matters, but handwaving the basic logistics (simple things, like fuel and water) between a Moon and a Mars mission and trying to make them equivalent undertakings...that's some seriously delusional thinking.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ggffryuuj on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:45PM (#22538254)
The moon is just as much of an un-funded wank fantasy as mars... grow up dude
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ryanmercer on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:08PM (#22537897)
Proximity matters a lot until you have sure-fire technology.

If you have a critical failure on the moon, you are home in 3-4 days being debriefed. If you have a critical failure on Mars, it could be 2 years until your remains can be recovered and respectfully laid to rest.

If you're testing a new technology and discover some serious flaw or major way to improve it and lack the materials to make an adjustment you could have that done and sent on the next trip in a week or a month or 3 months from Earth to the Moon. On Mars, you could be looking at 2+ years.

On the moon you have to deal with power over a 13.65 day night, at first this could be achieved by simply having human missions only there for 2 weeks ~ at a time until you get enough power generation there (say a small reactor) to provide sufficient power constnatly. On Mars you have to deal with a night comparable in length to Earth but you have considerably reduced solar irradiance meaning if you use PV it's always going to produce less during the day. This makes the Moon a better candidate for testing power management, battery technologies, small reactors, etc.

Any technology that can survive in the harsher conditions of the moon, will mostly work out of the box on Mars with the only real stuff needing custom-tailored being vehicles as the Martian and luanr regolith will vary enough (especially combined with the gravity differences) to require you to at least adjust suspensions and wheels.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by NortySpock on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:40PM (#22536983)
The moon has water ice in dark craters, as well as minable ore that contain aluminum, iron, silicon and oxygen. You will "just" need to use heavy mining and smelting gear to extract it.

Solar power and batteries should work assuming you're willing to build your base among the "peaks of [near] eternal light" which get sunshine nearly ninety percent of the time.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by LargoLasskhyfv on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @07:39PM (#22541243)
What needs to be "heavy" gear on the moon? I feel that our current understanding of operations in that environment mostly doesn't apply. Take smelting for example: during lunar day you can bundle several parabolic mirrors and smelt whatever you want. Just have to care about catching it, otherwise it evaporates away. ISTR https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=optical+mining is a common concept now.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:43PM (#22537018)
This is mostly true on Mars too except perhaps the eternal light part
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by CydeWeys on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:57PM (#22537152)
Mars has a lot more benefit here, in that it has a normal-length day. Much better to reliably have sunlight for roughly half of every day than to rely on a few polar areas that are in sunlight most of the time. The equator of the Moon is more suitable for other reasons, so what are you going to do, put the solar panels at the poles and run long power lines down to the equatorial regions where the power is used? Nah.

Mars is better for solar power because you won't need nearly as much battery capacity, as you get light on a ~24 hour cycle same as Earth. The Moon with its slow rotation is much more challenging.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by NortySpock on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:57PM (#22537782)
Plus Mars has an atmosphere (95% CO2, 3% Nitrogen, 2% Argon, 1% other at 1% of Earth atmospheric presure IIRC), which the Moon utterly lacks.

Compress that into a tank and you can chemically (or biologically) convert that into an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere to breathe.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by Someone on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:32PM (#22537483)
On the minus side, Mars gets less than half the amount of sunlight per square meter.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by CydeWeys on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:39PM (#22538191)
That's true, but I think the fact that you get light reliably every day is still a big point in its favor. It's probably a lot less mass total to send up twice the solar panels and 18 hours' worth of batteries vs half the solar panels but 16 days' worth of batteries. Solar panels are pretty light; batteries are not.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by theseadroid on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:36PM (#22536942)
And its proximity is probably the most important factor?
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:47PM (#22537056)
I'm not so sure about that. It takes more delta-v to get to the moon than mars and both are still too far for immediate response to emergencies. Sure the moon has the advantage of emergency assistance of a few days (?) but I don't think that's more valuable than all of Mars's pros
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by jbattle on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:06PM (#22537240)
> It takes more delta-v to get to the moon than mars

Is that true? I can't see how that'd be true, unless maybe you are considering aerobraking to enter mars orbit and parachutes for landing on the surface (?)

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by kjs3 on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:27PM (#22671581)
It's hyperselective framing the argument: bork bork Delta-V bork...and let's just ignore the 6 months of travel time and logistics difference as though that doesn't exist. Then I get to be right!
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:12PM (#22537294)
yes with aerobreaking but I still believe that includes a propulsive landing after. The moon has no atmosphere so it has to be propulsive landing 100%
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by svaigsq on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:24PM (#22537410)
If Mars has atmosphere, then Moon has equally useless atmosphere, too. Despite differences in day length, Moon can gather more solar power, than Mars and energy is everything. Besides, those sattellites are gonna crash.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by btkramer9 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @01:35PM (#22537515)
I don't think your atmosphere comparison is valid. The moon has absolutely no atmosphere. Mars' is 1% of earth. That's still a lot of _something_. aerobraking, and easy access to unlimited CO2 is incredibly valuable. Delta-v to mars is less than the moon so the extra solar panels required is not that big of an issue. The moon will probably only be a research outpost because of its gravity and slow rotation. Mars on the other hand will most likely transition to nuclear eventually to sustain a city/colony and industry
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by jacobush on Wednesday March 11, 2020 @05:24AM (#22544318)
Ackshully Mars' atmosphere is famous for being rubbish for aerobraking but enough to burn you up.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by palisade on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:09PM (#22537903)
A floating habitat on Venus is actually more attractive. Venus (upper atmosphere): -human livable temperatures with modest temperature control -Earth-like pressure (Himalayans) leads to slow leaks that can be patched, and pressure can be increased inside to stop the leaks inward -protected by thick atmosphere from radiation, meteors, asteroids -strong magnetic field against radiation -atmosphere still thin enough for solar panel energy use -the sulfuric acid atmosphere requires a Teflon coating and/or mixing Teflon particles with the metals during fabrication -the escape velocity from the upper atmosphere is low and requires a small rocket and not much fuel, leaving more fuel for return trips -distance between Earth and Venus is 3 months, versus 6 months to a 1 year depending on the window of opportunity.. that means you can rescue crews faster, get them supplies quicker, and replace crew sooner on Venus -oxygen on Venus has a strong lifting power, you can float entire heavy concrete and steel cities on massive platforms, think cloud city from Star Wars(tm) -aerodynamics work similarly to Earth; airships (dirigibles), airplanes, drones are all possible here Concept mission to Venus compliments of NASA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0az7DEwG68A

Mars: -inhospitable temperatures not suitable for human or plant life -explosive decompression due to a micro-meteorite causing a hole -no atmosphere to protect against radiation or projectiles -weak magnetic field providing no protection -violent unpredictable wind storms on the surface -unbreathable atmosphere -the escape velocity from Mars requires a massive rocket equivalent to the one we use to leave Earth and therefore more fuel leaving less payload for delivering other resources or supplies -the distance is 6 months to 1 year depending on the window of opportunity, leading to some NASA scientists to suggest we should find it acceptable that it as a suicide mission with no hope of return

Rotating space station: -high risk from impacts -no atmosphere to protect against radiation or projectiles -no magnetic field providing no protection -danger from space debris from previous missions -no surrounding breathable atmosphere -close distance makes resupplying and re-crewing more tenable -requires constant fuel and attention to not de-orbit -does not establish a permanent residence -not a base of significant distance for further operations to the rest of the solar system

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:52PM (#22538327)
> the escape velocity from Mars requires a massive rocket equivalent to the one we use to leave Earth and therefore more fuel leaving less payload for delivering other resources or supplies

Wait, what? Isn't escape velocity from Mars lower than that from Venus? The surface gravity is far lower on Mars.

I also note that you list "no surrounding breathable atmosphere" as a negative for a rotating space station, but the surrounding atmosphere on Venus isn't exactly breathable either...

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by palisade on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @04:08PM (#22539127)
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by scrumbledober on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:17PM (#22538601)
i'm not sure how the math works out but you would be launching from a much much higher altitude than ground level on venus, whereas on mars you would be launching from roughly ground level.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by xref on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:41PM (#22538217)
I’d throw in if a rotating station is still in LEO (seems likely for a first attempt) it would have the benefit of Earth’s magnetic field for shielding. Not if used for traveling to another body though.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by LargoLasskhyfv on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @07:20PM (#22541059)
Like presumably "the Ancients" did? https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/f5s2f4/the_unus...

Starting at about 8M55S he decribes some interesting aspects of the so called two day orbit.

Anyways, it is OUTSIDE the magnetic field. But would it really matter if you have the technology to build a space station big enough to have rotational gravity? I'd imagine we'd cover that with regolith mass driven from the moon, or something like that.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by ggffryuuj on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:40PM (#22538205)
Literally everything you said is wrong except projectiles and space stations. Magnetic fields are easy to make. Wind storms and unbreathable air and radiation and projectiles don’t matter if you’re underground. The idea that a floating city is better than a city cemented in soil is laughable. Good luck maintaining that Teflon coating on literally every exterior surface.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by Fjolsvith on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @02:52PM (#22538333)
The distance would be mitigated with a 1g thrust drive. It would reduce the transit time between Earth and Mars to three days, with the ship accelerating to midpoint and decelerating from there.

We just need a craft that can thrust that strength for three days straight.

Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by scrumbledober on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @03:29PM (#22538714)
A craft that can sustain a 1g thrust for three days straight is the most outlandish idea in this entire thread.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by Fjolsvith on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @06:05PM (#22540305)
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by scrumbledober on Thursday March 12, 2020 @02:19PM (#22559921)
talking about how it would be cool if we had a ship that could do that, and the implications of that. In no way is anyone with any serious education actually talking about HOW to possibly get a craft with the mass fraction and specific impulse to pull this off. we are several orders of magnitude off of this being possible when it comes to specific impulse, and the highest impulse engines we have have nowhere near enough thrust to weight.
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by Fjolsvith on Thursday March 12, 2020 @04:09PM (#22561202)
Re:Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth ... by anewguy9000 on Tuesday March 10, 2020 @12:31PM (#22536909)
references?