Spot on...I have to assume btkramer9 is just a obsessed Zubrin fanboi or so scifi obsessed there's no objectivity. I get that Kerbal Space Program let's a new generation of armchair celestial mechanics say "Delta V!" as though that's all that matters, but handwaving the basic logistics (simple things, like fuel and water) between a Moon and a Mars mission and trying to make them equivalent undertakings...that's some seriously delusional thinking.