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Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by zadkey on Monday February 17, 2020 @02:17PM (#22349865)
I can't agree more. Google has some of the crappiest support around. A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by LeifCarrotson on Monday February 17, 2020 @03:57PM (#22350676)
"A few lawsuits" is an so much an understatement that it might as well be a lie. You'd need one out of every few (13.75) people in the USA to successfully bring a $5k lawsuit against Google to reduce them from highly profitable to break-even. Lawsuits and bad publicity only matter if they're more costly than ignoring the problem.

If the company in the article successfully sued for the $5,000 they were being extorted over that wouldn't even matter. A few of those lawsuits wouldn't matter. A few thousand of those lawsuits wouldn't even matter.

The European Commission last year issued a massive lawsuit against Google Adsense of $1.6 billion [1]. Google marked that EC fine down in its SEC filings on page 86 of their 10-K [2]. European Commission fees constitute an effective tax of 1.0% in 2019, which they add to various other factors for a total tax rate of 13.3%. Page 89 shows that Google revenue was $160B, while expenses were $40B.

Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so.

[1]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_...

[2]: https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/20200204_alphabet_10K.pd...

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by MichaelDickens on Monday February 17, 2020 @04:14PM (#22350826)
You don't need to sue Google enough to completely eat up their profits, you just need to sue them enough that it becomes cheaper for them to staff a better customer service department.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by dhimes on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @02:30PM (#22359439)
Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so.

This is exactly how Microsoft grew evil.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by malka on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @07:17AM (#22355381)
yeah. bullets are mort apt than fines to change people behavior. bank notes do not protect from bullets.
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Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by LeifCarrotson on Monday February 17, 2020 @08:53PM (#22352758)
You're missing my point completely.

When the complex system of people and laws and org charts and incentives and procedures that is the organism known as Google makes a decision, whether or not a particular decision is virtuous or not is insignificant.

Even if it was, trying to change their behavior through occasional social interaction is as unlikely to make Google provide good customer service as brushing your teeth without water is unlikely to fix California central valley aquifer depletion. There's a system that rewards Google with billions of dollars and a system that sprays water into the desert that you're fighting against. Ignoring that system, and advocating that people pour emotional effort into ineffective responses, is so unhelpful as to be counterproductive.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by goatinaboat on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @03:27AM (#22354390)
and incentives and procedures that is the organism known as Google makes a decision, whether or not a particular decision is virtuous or not is insignificant.

True but you can influence an organism by influencing its cells too. Think global, act local.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by dmix on Monday February 17, 2020 @10:58PM (#22353336)
It’d be nice if the anti trust people in the US looked into this as a factor. Anti consumer behaviour, not even non-customers as the usual case, but their own customers are being exploited by their monopolistic hold on ad publishers.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by mceachen on Monday February 17, 2020 @09:07PM (#22352830)
Individual contributors at Google are not making these decisions. It's the CEO and upper management that decide not to fund customer support teams and to adopt morally dubious policies.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by luckylion on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @02:54AM (#22354257)
The individual contributors are part of it though. If they walk and cannot be replaced, policies have to change. They are pretty much the best pressure point there is to get Google to move on something if you're not representing a large amount of shares.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by Draiken on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @05:52AM (#22355020)
> Walk and cannot be replaced

We live in a world where 99.9999999999999% of people are completely replaceable. Specially for a trillion dollar company.

Unfortunately that stance is naive in my opinion.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by luckylion on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @07:54AM (#22355627)
Sure, but if you subscribe to the idea that Google is hiring "the best and the brightest" and couldn't pull off a lot of the hard tech if they just had five times the number of average CS majors, that situation changes very quickly, because the pool of people to replace them from shrinks dramatically.

It's not that they couldn't replace them, it's just a lot cheaper to change some policies. If you're threatened with half your R&D staff walking out over some project in China, how hard is that decision, really?

Imho, the problem is that Googlers are paid a lot of money to not care, and that works pretty well.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by Gibbon1 on Monday February 17, 2020 @04:24PM (#22350920)
What I'm seeing is industry is doing the same thing to them that they did to Intel. Encapsulate them in a cyst like the body does to a parasitic worm. Basically all of their non ad ventures will fail due customers reflexively choosing their competitors products. Just like no one will pick Intel as a vendor outside of their core products.
Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by Analemma_ on Monday February 17, 2020 @03:51PM (#22350618)
> A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune.

I'm not sure about that. Google's crappy support is deeply, deeply embedded in their culture -- for all the benefits, it's one of the downsides of their PhD-heavy, engineering-first mentality, because engineers and academics loathe dealing with people, and to the extent that it's necessary for some system, regard that as a sign that system was improperly designed.

Google would need a major culture shift to start having good support, and unfortunately it's the exact kind of culture shift that would anger and alienate a lot of Googlers. Don't count on this changing anytime soon.

Re:Pay up or we’ll make Google ban your ads by kunglao on Monday February 17, 2020 @07:39PM (#22352393)
That's one lousy excuse for a corporation like Google. This has nothing to do with them being PhD-heavy or engineering-first? (what engineering-first are you referring to btw?) The reason for this is the nature of their business. It's a calculated decision by them in terms of how much is worth spending on support without taking an actual hit to their margins.