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Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by GaryNumanVevo on Friday February 14, 2020 @01:26PM (#22328834)
A first big step would be to severely limit campaign spending on advertisement, including SuperPAC money. If you mention your candidate's name, that ad will count towards a hard cap on ad spending.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by sokoloff on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:30PM (#22329505)
My prediction is that you'd see ads for "Universal Basic Income", "2 cent tax on $50 millionaires", "a Senator who can't be bought", or "an experienced White House operator", or whatever else was 1 inch inside the boundary and could fairly clearly be linked to the preferred candidate without "counting".
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by dv_dt on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:38PM (#22329566)
This could still have a beneficial effect of pushing political discussion towards issues instead of personalities.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by m_ke on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:52PM (#22329717)
Ideally we'd get rid of the presidency and vote for people at the cabinet level instead.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by jaywalk on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:27PM (#22330071)
Ideally? Sounds like a clusterf- waiting to happen, far worse than anything we've got now.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tathougies on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:36PM (#22330644)
The president's personality is by far more important than his/her political views given that their views do not matter when it comes to legislation if Congress is aligned.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by pc86 on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:24PM (#22330544)
> or whatever else was 1 inch inside the boundary and could fairly clearly be linked to the preferred candidate without "counting"

That is generally how laws work, yes. You explicitly define the exact boundaries within which people/organizations/smaller governments may operate. And they operate exactly within those boundaries.

This is why law is complicated and good lawyers make good money. Not because the system is corrupt (it might be) but because you need to draw these explicit boundaries, and then you will have people/organizations/smaller governments try to get around the spirit but follow the letter.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:32PM (#22330605)
Boundary pushing is also risky business. There are two kinds of murky areas that exist - ones that are specifically carved out due to the letter of the law and ones that lie between the restricted and the allowed. The former case is where lawyers make really good money - the latter case is where judges reign and precedents are set... If there were a 1964 law that read something like "Sale of consulting services on the topic of banking via remote communication methods (radio, phone, television, or vision-phone) is prohibited when such communication would necessitate crossing a state boundary" then it's extremely likely that a judge would uphold the law as preventing such communication via VOIP if a tech company tried to offer such a service.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:26PM (#22330559)
If the FEC had teeth they could come down on candidates skirting the law like this forcefully - being technically within the law but outside the spirit of it is something all branches of law currently deal with in a sane manner - there's always "clearly wrong" and "clearly okay" where they meet always has somewhat of a grey area (or areas) and that's where judges rule.

I don't think this is a legitimate concern, we've solved it elsewhere - even in extremely sensitive areas. And, at worst, it'll force Ads to be more indirect and, if that proliferates, we can expand the powers of the law as needed.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by quotemstr on Friday February 14, 2020 @06:34PM (#22331521)
If someone has broken the law, he's broken the law. If he hasn't broken the law but you wish there were laws against his actions, that person still hasn't broken the law. Convicting people for random things you feel should be illegal but aren't is tyranny. Punishing people for violating the
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Sunday February 16, 2020 @09:19PM (#22345064)
The law is not a strict list of all possible actions, activist judges are certainly an issue but they are uncommon and extremely rare at higher courts. Laws always contain grey areas and usually when a case actually gets before a circuit or higher court it's because a dispute has fallen into a grey area (or someone made an error and those are usually quick judgements). It's that grey area I'm talking about where decisions need to be made in accordance with legal intent.

Uneven application of the law is certainly an issue, and an overly wide application of the law usually falls under ex post facto laws which are seen as illegal by pretty much everyone. There are very sane people who can judge challenges to the law - we can lean on these people heavily.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by sokoloff on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:21PM (#22330979)
Isn't the entire controversy over global corporate activity structuring that has the effect of optimizing taxes within the letter of the law evidence against this as a "solved problem"?
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Sunday February 16, 2020 @09:13PM (#22345032)
Once a law is clarified and precedence is set it's capricious and arbitrary to change it - tax laws don't have "loopholes" for corporations in the classical sense - they have been crafted (and reaffirmed) in a manner that benefits corporations.

A real loophole is something that gets closed once noticed, and there are accountants that thread the needle on these - a good, and rather widespread, example might be SUVs qualifying as farm equipment. This combined with loose agricultural qualifications in some states (like florida) led to widespread claims against luxury auto taxes for some pretty bizarre cases - then that loophole was closed.

The US has the absolute authority to solve the loophole, other countries can't do much about it but since the US is the ultimate destination for these goods the government can demand that manufacturing steps have paid proper minimums on VAT taxes and force tariffs on goods equivalent to the lost tax potential when goods enter the US - since the US is a huge consumer market that'll cover a whole lot of items... Additionally, as soon as the US starts collecting the taxes that the Bahamas voluntarily let go unpaid people won't ship goods there to dodge the VAT - then the Bahamas will have no continued reason to decline to charge VAT and likely institute a sane VAT just to acquire what income they can (since not doing so is essentially leaving money on the table).

Honestly, corporate tax laws are how they are because corporations hold a lot of political power - not because nobody notices what's going on or because no one can actually address the situation.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by BrandonMarc on Friday February 14, 2020 @07:36PM (#22331960)
Who could trust the FEC to fairly adjudicate? Whoever is in power, or whoever placed the officials, the other side will happily claim foul play.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Sunday February 16, 2020 @09:15PM (#22345040)
This is the role of the government, there are occasional scandals, and occasional attempts to make scandals out of nothing - but all government departments have this power. And they would be held to account very quickly for uneven application of the law - whenever one company's competitor is getting a sweet deal they'll pursue that all the way to the courts - and the courts should (ideally) be neutral.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tathougies on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:35PM (#22330638)
This election make sure to cast your vote for any candidate with an orange spray tan. This message brought to you by the 'more orange men in politics PAC'.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by MR4D on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:40PM (#22330174)
The problem is that you can't have that and also have the first Amendment. Of all speech to be protected, the most important speech is political speech.

But aside from that, what happens if my spouse runs and ad naming my opponent?

Or my neighbor does?

Or CNN does - perhaps in an ad for a personal interview to be televised in prime time ?

There is no practical way to stop this. There will always be ways around it.

But first, that Amendment thing...

If you lock down political speech, you no longer have a democracy (yes, I know we are a republic). Because then the government gets to control what is or is not allowed. And I guarantee that whichever party is in power at the moment will use that to try to stay in power. And it's dominoes falling after that.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by HappySweeney on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:26PM (#22330555)
In Canada, we ban all political advertising within the official election period for anyone other than the politicians themselves, and only individuals are allowed to make donations limited to $1600. It keeps things sane. Our elections are measured in single-digit weeks rather than double-digit months, though.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tathougies on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:43PM (#22330701)
Canada (or any westminster system) has no absolute guarantee of free speech. Parliamentary democracy is based on the principle of absolute parliamentary sovereignty. The political system is incomparable. Parliament is not even anywhere near the same thing as Congress (or vice versa). The Congress of the United States and the Congress of the individual states are completely subject to a higher law. There is nothing similar in Canadian politics. Even the Canadian constitution is another Act of Parliament, no special consideration required. That is to say, the Canadian Constitution (as expressed in the Constitution act of 1982) is such because parliament says it is so. On the other hand, the Constitution of the United States of America exists because it says it does, and Congress is subject to it and cannot change it on its own.

In order to amend the Canadian constitution, Parliament must amend it. On the other hand, Congress can become subject to changes in the constitution even without its consent, as was seen in the passage of the most recent amendment.

In the 1980s a university student decided to change the constitution against Congress's wishes and was able to do so, by getting the states to change the laws to which Congress is subject. Try doing that in Canada.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by sjy on Friday February 14, 2020 @10:23PM (#22332967)
This hasn’t been true since 1982. If anything, the guarantee of free speech in the Canadian constitution is procedurally stronger than that in the United States, since it can only be removed with the support of both houses of Parliament and a supermajority of provinces.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by int_19h on Friday February 14, 2020 @10:46PM (#22333081)
Free speech in Canada - like most other fundamental rights - is gutted by the "notwithstanding clause" in the Charter.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by shkkmo on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:12PM (#22330443)
> Because then the government gets to control what is or is not allowed. And I guarantee that whichever party is in power at the moment will use that to try to stay in power.

The BCRA (McCain–Feingold) was a fairly balanced piece of legislation with reasonable and practical limits that was passed in a bipartisan manner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act

I see no reason why limiting corporate financing of electioneering means we are on a slippery slope to a loss of individual political speech.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by SpicyLemonZest on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:34PM (#22330628)
The Citizens United case showed the slippery slope we were on. Michael Moore was allowed to release a movie about how a particular presidential candidate was bad just before the 2004 election. But when Citizens United tried to do the same thing in 2008, the FEC said it was a campaign ad and stopped them. If the law had been allowed to stand that way, we would have ended up in a world where popular media figures have special speech privileges you or I don't get.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by shkkmo on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:42PM (#22330693)
I don't think your facts are correct.

Farenheit 9/11 was released 4 months prior to the 2004 election and is thus outside the 60 day window and not prohibited by Mcain-Feingold.

I would have wholeheartedly supported that movie being blocked as electioneering inside the 60 day window.

Edit: Specifically, Citizens United was prohibited for paying to show or advertise within 30 days of the democratic primaries.

> The United States District Court for the District of Columbia held that §203 of BCRA applied and prohibited Citizens United from advertising the film Hillary: The Movie in broadcasts or paying to have it shown on television within 30 days of the 2008 Democratic primaries. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by alexpetralia on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:53PM (#22330292)
Removing campaign finance would not impair the content of free political speech, but merely its magnitude to the extent it is amplified by money.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by harryh on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:21PM (#22330523)
Reducing the ability of someone to broadcast their speech is an impairment.

What you have said is akin to saying that if the government banned the publishing of certain books that wouldn't be an impairment on the written word because people would still be free to write whatever they wanted down in their own personal notebooks.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Seenso on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:29PM (#22330579)
>> Removing campaign finance would not impair the content of free political speech, but merely its magnitude to the extent it is amplified by money.

> Reducing the ability of someone to broadcast their speech is an impairment.

Not necessarily; it all depends on perspective. Campaign finance restrictions would (relatively) enhance the ability of a not-so-wealthy person to broadcast their speech, because their message wouldn't be so drowned out by the broadcasts of the wealthy.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by harryh on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:31PM (#22330595)
The first amendment doesn't say anything about ensuring any sort of level playing field for speech from different parties. It says that the government can't make any laws "abridging the freedom of speech."

The amendment says that the government has to stay out of the way.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Seenso on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:28PM (#22331032)
> The first amendment doesn't say anything about ensuring any sort of level playing field for speech from different parties. It says that the government can't make any laws "abridging the freedom of speech."

The First Amendment isn't the sum total of American law. I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there are constitutional powers meant to provide effective democratic elections.

The tension here is between those two interests. I think it's worth considering the idea that a too-absolutist interpretation of the First Amendment (in regards to spending) may interfere with the nation's ability to provide effective democratic elections. Both are important priorities.

Also, it's not like the Constitution is perfect, timeless document. If it doesn't do enough to ensure effective democratic elections in light of its other provisions, then changes should be considered to fix that oversight.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Seenso on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:17PM (#22330490)
> If you lock down political speech, you no longer have a democracy (yes, I know we are a republic). Because then the government gets to control what is or is not allowed.

Political speech is already locked down in many ways by the government. For instance: neither you nor I can go to a polling station and harangue the people waiting to vote. We're also not permitted to force our way into schools or private homes to do the same. If we violate those rules, some people in blue uniforms will come and haul us away.

No one has an unrestricted right to go out and literally speak, as that right to do that is balanced against other rights and considerations. What's so different about the right to spend? Why can't that right be balanced against other rights and considerations, too?

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by manfredo on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:42PM (#22331155)
Quite the opposite: political speech is one of the most protected forms of speech. Your example for polling stations is a very narrow case where the integrity of the election takes priority. Your second case is effectively just pointing out that trespassing laws exist.

> No one has an unrestricted right to go out and literally speak, as that right to do that is balanced against other rights and considerations. What's so different about the right to spend? Why can't that right be balanced against other rights and considerations, too?

You're right: spending is not treated very much differently than speech. Can a state pass a law that says people are limited to 30 political posts on social media per week? Can the government enforce a rule saying "people are limited to 30 hours of political activity per month"?

Campaign spending - that is, money that is being given directly to candidates - is already limited. Citizens United did not change this. What is unlimited is spending on activism unrelated to any particular campaign. Say you and some of your friends are worried about climate change, and put together some money to run ads or billboards not promoting any politician in particular but encouraging more work on preventing climate change. Can the government swoop in and say, "sorry you've reached your spending limit for climate activism"?

The courts decided no. Putting caps on this sort of activity is an infringement on people's right to free speech.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tathougies on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:38PM (#22330657)
> We're also not permitted to force our way into schools or private homes to do the same

Actually, you are allowed to protest on public property within earshot of private homes.

You cannot enter a private home because someone else's property and liberty trump your right to free speech on their property. In so far as their property includes the sidewalk (typically). You have every right to speak there. You can even protest there if you want.

> No one has an unrestricted right to go out and literally speak,

Yes, you do have every right to go out on public property and literally speak. That is literally the right you have that many have died for and the ACLU and other orgs have fought for. Try it right now! Have fun. There is literally no restriction as long as you are not physically harassing or verbally abusing someone, and you are not physically preventing anyone from passing you.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Seenso on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:44PM (#22331173)
>> No one has an unrestricted right to go out and literally speak...

> Yes, you do have every right to go out on public property and literally speak.

No, you don't. Most states have laws that prevent you from doing that at a polling place on election day:

For example:

https://www.nass.org/sites/default/files/surveys/2020-01/sta...

> During the hours the polls are open, a person who is in the polling place or within 200 feet of any entrance to the polling place may not attempt to persuade a person to vote for or against a candidate, proposition, or question.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tathougies on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:48PM (#22331202)
These all have distance limitations meant to allow people to access the facility. Outside of those places on public property, you have every right.

This is like saying laws meant to keep stairways clear are restricting your free speech. You are absolutely allowed to protest near an election center within reasonable limits.

To point out how ridiculous these selections of laws are as a proof that free speech is being abridged, I'll point out that Alabama restricts protests to be at least 30 feet away from the site. If 30 feet means you can't get your message across in a public enough forum, I'm not sure what to say.

Also, a lot of those laws are subject to pending legislation.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by sjy on Friday February 14, 2020 @10:11PM (#22332914)
Sounds like you are in complete agreement with the original claim that “no one has an unrestricted right to go out and literally speak.”
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by pc86 on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:31PM (#22330593)
Interfering with someone voting and breaking and entering are not speech.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Seenso on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:55PM (#22330791)
> breaking and entering are not speech.

That's kinda my point. You're not allowed to trespass in order to exercise free speech rights, because private property rights are balanced against free speech rights.

The to quote the First Amendment:

> Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech...

> Interfering with someone voting [is] not speech.

That's true, but you could still harangue voters waiting in line at the polls without interfering with any aspect of the voting procedures. Yet that exercise of free speech still isn't permitted, because its balanced against needs for running elections.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by orangecat on Friday February 14, 2020 @07:05PM (#22331749)
What's so different about the right to spend?

There's very little you can do without spending, whether directly or indirectly. How would pro-choice advocates like it if abortion was explicitly legal, but it was illegal to spend money to obtain or provide abortion procedures?

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by dd36 on Friday February 14, 2020 @10:37PM (#22333039)
We are a representative democracy and a republic. And in some ways a direct democracy. The “we’re a republic” “point” is usually made by the least informed among us.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Consultant32452 on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:54PM (#22329732)
The problem is "news" organizations have unlimited "spending". So they are free to talk about how great everyone but Bernie/Yang/Tulsi is. They're free to leave them off polling results, exclude them from debates, etc. The marketing value of this type of thing is larger than the combined ad spend by the campaigns or superpacs.

Someone did a pretty good job of cataloging this phenomenon for Yang. Bear in mind, this is just the most blatant visual removal of him from conversation and doesn't include the way they frame discussions verbally.

https://vocal.media/theSwamp/a-visual-history-of-the-yang-me...

If you're going to restrict campaigns, you must also control corporate press lest they just be given all the power to choose our leaders.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by hfdh434535 on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:54PM (#22330297)
I'm sorry - why is Yang entitled to a place in the conversation? I wish his campaign got more attention too. But the lack of coverage he's getting seems related to the fact that he is not well known, he is not as popular as the other candidates, and his ideas are not yet part of the mainstream discourse. You're not entitled to equal time in media coverage because you declared your candidacy.

Ideally, journalists would cover the topics they think are important to their audiences. We know this doesn't play out in practice. But even in an ideal world, I don't see Yang getting more coverage.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by filoleg on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:34PM (#22331072)
>I'm sorry - why is Yang entitled to a place in the conversation?

Overall, he isn't entitled to a place in the conversation, but omitting him from certain parts of the conversation seems very disingenuous.

For a real life example, if they show a list of "all" candidates on screen (including 7 that poll lower than Yang), but exclude Yang from that list, this is not cool at all (which is exactly what happened multiple times, as evidenced by the article the parent comment linked). Same goes for debates, where some candidates got a ton of questions asked, while Andrew got way fewer questions.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Consultant32452 on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:00PM (#22330828)
This phenomenon is not unique to Yang. In 2016 they did the same kinds of things to Bernie, the highest rated senator in the country by polling. I just don't have a Bernie version of that website showing the corporate media putting their favored candidates in front of candidates that are polling higher. But even if you don't think any of that is true, I think it should be obvious that the corporate press will have an oligopoly over our elections.

Consider the economic value to the Trump campaign that comes from how Fox News talks about him. Consider the economic value the Dem candidate will get based on how MSNBC talks about them compared to Trump. It's a huge campaign contributions that aren't accounted for by the FEC but are surely an important part of campaigns.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by hfdh434535 on Friday February 14, 2020 @05:28PM (#22331029)
During the 2016 primary, I'd argue Bernie Sanders got more coverage than normal. He was behind in polling and in delegate count. He should have been getting none. But he got more than what I think his candidacy deserved, since a horse race is good for ratings, and the story of him vs Clinton made for the perfect one. This is all based on my observations, and no empirical data however.

I do think Sanders was shortchanged of some press coverage in this primary. I think that's changing as his chances of winning go up. I hope he's covered extensively, because I don't think most people are aware of some of his negatives, and as a front funner, his candidacy deserves our scrutiny.

You make a good point that there is an oligopoly of corporate press. I think that's something harmful to our democracy, and something we should be concerned about. I'm not sure what the solution is. For now, I just donate to public radio.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by icebraining on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:18AM (#22334190)
> He was behind in polling and in delegate count. He should have been getting none.

So only the top candidate should get any coverage?!

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ummonk on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:50PM (#22329689)
Can I DoS a candidate by spending a ton on a crappy ad that mentions them? Or heck, even an attack ad against them would count towards the hard cap.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by mtmail on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:31PM (#22330101)
It's hard to outspend billionaire, they'll just increase the bids on the ads.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by shkkmo on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:14PM (#22330450)
This isn't an unsolvable problem, There were existing solutions that solved these concerns that were struck down.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by mc32 on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:41PM (#22329600)
What do you do about endorsements, newspapers with profiles on politicians, unions telling their members to vote for one or the other.

If no/few ads are allowed we’d likely get famous or infamous people running and winning on name recognition mostly.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ajross on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:48PM (#22329674)
The point is NOT that "famous" people have opinions. Of course they do, for the same reason that nobodies like us have opinions. The Wall Street Journal is absolutely welcome to tell you to vote for Trump if you happen to be reading its editorial page. Your union leadership is welcome to tell you they think Warren is great and endorse her; you voted for them and presumably you care about their opinions. Taylor Swift has been known to endorse the occasional candidate too. Shaping our opinions based on those of people we trust is the way things are supposed to work.

The problem with paid advertising is that this breaks down. Now it's not the "people" we trust that are telling us this stuff, it's the "places" we go to find those people. There's a difference between Zukerberg telling us who to vote for and Facebook taking money to plaster our feed with Bloomberg ads. So people who are likely to "trust" their Facebook feed (which is most people) are now at the mercy of whoever is willing to pay Facebook the most money.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by mc32 on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:54PM (#22329735)
I don’t see a clear difference between Swift/WSJ telling you something and your FB feed telling you something. I think Gervais had some truth to what he was saying. Famous people have much more gravitas than they deserve (given any expertise on any particular subject they feel is worthy of advancing). I hope you appreciate the irony in this quip.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by icebraining on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:22AM (#22334201)
I think ajross is OK with Facebook telling you, just on their blog or something, not on ads.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Friday February 14, 2020 @01:38PM (#22328973)
You would need to also ban all mentions of the candidate's name in media. Otherwise, a billionaire could get around this by buying a newspaper or tv or radiostation and run programs praising the candidate and maligning the opposition.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by rchaud on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:40PM (#22330175)
It's already happening. The Bezos-owned Washington Post's Opinions section has been, shall we say, skeptical of the Democratic front-runner in the two primaries/caucuses so far, resulting in this humorous juxtaposition of two stories written by the same columnist:

https://i.redd.it/028hqkitate41.jpg

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by munk-a on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:34PM (#22330630)
A billionaire would need to direct the newspaper to carry out such actions - if they were directing the newspaper in such a manner it would be a campaign donation, giving a candidate a ferrari counts as a donation since you're giving them something of value, even if the campaign didn't actively solicit the donation - in theory these sorts of media tricks already fall under unrecorded campaign donations that the FEC should be going after, in practice the FEC has no teeth.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ksdale on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:38PM (#22329574)
SlateStarCodex has a relevant post on money in politics - https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/18/too-much-dark-money-in...
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tomp on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:08PM (#22329879)
TL;DR - there is surprisingly little money in politics. Even the "low billionaires" like Elon Musk (who has like 10 times less money than Gates, Buffet, Bezos, Bloomberg) could easily overspend all other candidates together.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ksdale on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:18PM (#22329981)
Also, corporations spend surprisingly little, like, a rounding error compared to how much they could spend.

And there's a cynical response that they are gaining influence in other ways, but it's not like we usually model corporations as agents of great restraint, so why wouldn't they also do way more political spending?

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by icebraining on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:32AM (#22334242)
Why would they spend more? They're already getting the outcomes they want.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ksdale on Saturday February 15, 2020 @04:05PM (#22337962)
Why do they lobby as much as they do if they’re getting everything they want?
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by icebraining on Saturday February 15, 2020 @06:03PM (#22338648)
They are getting what they want because they lobby as much as they do, not in spite of them.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by ksdale on Monday February 17, 2020 @02:26PM (#22349928)
That sounds like a just so story to me, though. They could spend way more on lobbying, and get more - more subsidies, more tax incentives, etc. but they don't. It seems very unlikely to me that they get everything they could possibly want for such a tiny fraction of what they could spend, given that most everything at the Fortune 500 level is a race to the bottom.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by MR4D on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:42PM (#22330198)
FYI, Elon Musk is worth dozens of billions. Not sure I'd call that "low". [0]

[0] - https://www.forbes.com/profile/elon-musk/#44fcf3a7999b

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by tomp on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:32PM (#22330602)
I heavily discount the market value of SpaceX, which is a private company (recent events have taught us that such thinking is prudent...).
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by zaroth on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:01PM (#22330361)
To be fair, at least one of those notional "dozens of billions" came in just the last few weeks.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by OscarCunningham on Friday February 14, 2020 @04:20PM (#22330515)
So I just spend ten times over the limit, win, and then I can't be prosecuted.