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A comment on The AI delusion: why humans trump machines. Parent comment

Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by htk on Friday February 07, 2020 @04:58PM (#22271457)
Koch believes “that consciousness is a fundamental, elementary property of living matter.”

Consciousness is “magic” then.

Even if we build machines to mimic a real brain, “it’ll be like a golem stumbling about,” he writes: adept at the Turing Test perhaps, but a zombie.

This guy created a whole moat of unfalsifiability around his views.

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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by ben_w on Friday February 07, 2020 @05:35PM (#22271865)
Your second quote sounds like a fairly straightforward description of P-zombies to me: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

However, to add to the criticism you have of this article about this book, your two quotes taken together appear to be contradictory: if consciousness is a fundamental element of living matter, then given that we can make new living matter, why should there be any reason we can’t make a conscious artificial machine?

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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by edflsafoiewq on Friday February 07, 2020 @05:53PM (#22272014)
P-zombies are magical nonsense.
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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by goatlover on Saturday February 08, 2020 @08:30AM (#22275607)
Magic has nothing to do with it. P-zombies are a philosophical thought experiment against physicalism. The point of the argument is to demonstrate that a purely physical description leaves out conscious experience. Nagel made the same point regarding bat sonar consciousness and science’s view from nowhere.
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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by goatlover on Saturday February 08, 2020 @08:27AM (#22275595)
No more magic than anything else fundamental. I don’t know whether consciousness is fundamental, but magical has nothing to do with being fundamental, unless existence itself is magical.
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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by vanusa on Friday February 07, 2020 @05:05PM (#22271547)
Consciousness is “magic” then.

That doesn't follow at all.

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Re:The AI delusion: why humans trump machines by clSTophEjUdRanu on Friday February 07, 2020 @05:39PM (#22271901)
They're in the camp that since you can't measure subjective experience its magic.

Well, they're here reading this, since they cant measure their experience they must not exist. /s

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