News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by nujabe on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:05AM (#22265559)
What's disturbing is that Apple seem to be deleting posts:

After attempting to be part of the solution; spending a ton of time testing, providing information in the community, communicating with Apple Engineers and Apple Business Team, our most recent post was deleted as "Speculative".

We have spent over $300,000 on Apple hardware over the years both business and consumer and now our voice has been muted. How can we move forward using Apple? Instead of deleting our posts, how about send it to management?

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by bangonkeyboard on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:40AM (#22265805)
I was going to ask where that quote was from before realizing that there is a 44-page thread beyond the two highlighted responses.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by armitron on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:53AM (#22265905)
Yes, and most of that thread is posts full of noise and faulty suggestions that add nothing to the discussion but serve to dilute the original post and the few posts with relevant information. Which is why I seldom bother with discussions.apple.com. It's a cesspit.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by jmull on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:55AM (#22265915)
Considering the existence of the long support thread, Apple doesn't seem to be trying to suppress this issue. And that poster has many posts, so isn't being targeted either.

Could it be the posts were deleted legitimately?

Some people in that thread are pretty angry and may have let it get the better of them.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by marriedWpt on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:26AM (#22266199)
Given Apple's less than ethical history, I'm not sure it's reasonable to give them benefit of doubt.

They might have an excuse that fans can believe, but the real reason is to suppress bad press.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by jmull on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:00AM (#22266555)
> the real reason is to suppress bad press.

Your assertion doesn't match the plain facts though.

We know Apple isn't suppressing this issue because there's a long, detailed thread about it on their own discussion site. If they wanted to try to suppress it, they would surely include that but didn't.

Also, suppressing information about problems to prevent bad press can't work anyway, since Apple only controls its own litter corner of the internet. If Apple didn't allow discussion of this issue on their board, it would be discussed elsewhere and generate the same bad press. If we suppose Apple tries to work in its own self-interests, they wouldn't bother with deleting posts to prevent bad press since it can't possibly work.

Meanwhile, there are obviously legitimate reasons to moderate postsm, so the fact that posts are being deleted doesn't seem nefarious on its own. There are angry people in that thread and angry people tend post things that need moderation.

I mean, I don't know. I'm open to the possibility that Apple is doing something bad. But so far, there's really no smoke, much less any fire.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by logicalskeptic on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:04AM (#22266599)
Have they acknowledged their keyboard issues?
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by fiddlerwoaroof on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:52AM (#22267123)
Yeah, which is why this MacBook Pro line has a non-butterfly keyboard and why they went through three iteration of the butterfly keyboard before giving up on it.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by logicalskeptic on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:21PM (#22268301)
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by CountSessine on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:56AM (#22267195)
Yes, they have a replacement program.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by cdmckay on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:44AM (#22266396)
What less than ethical history are you referring to? Have they deleted posts before?
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by ksec on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:53AM (#22266481)
>Have they deleted posts before?

Yes, and sort of the reason why most people discuss these sort of issues in other forum to gain support and evidence before posting it in the Official Forum.

Negative Post there, whether they are Hardware or Software are regularly deleted.

And I thought it was quite well known.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by cdmckay on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:53AM (#22267151)
I've never heard that before.

Is there an article or some source you can link to so I can read about it?

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:03AM (#22265987)
> How can we move forward using Apple?

And why should they? What's wrong with trying out something like Thinkpad X series[1] instead? Or Thinkpad P series, which can now come with Ubuntu LTS pre-installed. I wonder, if they would have invested so much time in fixing Dell's issues for Dell. Probably not. Why? Because there is no Dell's lock-in.

[1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/c/t...

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by zymhan on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:12AM (#22266057)
Oh come now, you surely understand that you cannot just drop in a Windows or Linux PC as a replacement for a Mac, just like you couldn't do the opposite. Organizations have management tools, single sign on, and software that may only run on one OS.

Suggesting a ThinkPad or Dell as a replacement is naive.

If an organization wants to change the computers it gives it's employees so dramatically, it will take some transition time, and a lot of fighting. We're not just talking about your personal laptop here.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:15AM (#22266090)
What you are saying is, that no matter how much one company keeps failing, they will never leave its ecosystem. What I am saying, is that it's never too late to begin considering it.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by zymhan on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:16AM (#22266098)
I literally said they can switch, but it is not easy and takes effort. You're assuming a lot by saying they haven't even considered it.

And more relevant to this post, Apple still sold people a multi-thousand dollar device, and those people are entitled to question why the device doesn't perform as expected.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:22AM (#22266142)
My point was, that we now have a long enough history of Apple's hardware failures, delayed admissions, and constrained repairability.

Instead of pretending to be surprised by another of Apple's non-reactions, they should use this as an opportunity to reconsider the whole picture.

At least, if Dell starts sucking, they can switch to HP or Lenovo, and the other way around. If Apple stars sucking, they have no other option but to keep complaining online.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by ksec on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:01AM (#22266574)
>My point was, that we have now a long enough history of Apple's hardware failures, delayed admissions, and constrained repairability.

Because despite all of its problems, sadly Apple's product is still very often the best on the market.

You sort of wish Microsoft to do better, both hardware and Software, along with HP and Dell. But the market is polarised with one group who dont care or understand quality, or another group who demands absolute perfection and are willing to pay for it.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by fortran77 on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:40AM (#22266354)
I switched from Mac to Windows 10 and it was painless.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by ac4tw on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:43AM (#22267026)
I'm curious about how long you were using Mac and how much of the ecosystem you were taking advantage of. Specifically were you using Apple messaging, photos, and / or email?

Also, did you take advantage of handoff or airdrop?

I imagine if you were strictly using cloud services, it was a relatively painless transition.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by zymhan on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:29AM (#22267606)
Again, we're talking about a company with likely dozens of Macs, at least, and the IT dept that has to support that change.

How on earth does your personal experience compare to any of that? You don't even cite what made it easy.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by marriedWpt on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:27AM (#22266206)
Why can't you? Compiling iOS apps?

Otherwise anything an Apple product can do, a competitor does cheaper and better.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by psychometry on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:44AM (#22266388)
Cheaper? Yes. Better? Not generally.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by speedgoose on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:37AM (#22266951)
It really depends. Some people want good gaming performances, an easy to upgrade or fix laptop, or simply a touch screen.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by runjake on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:06AM (#22266615)
I’ll tell you one reason why you shouldn’t switch to a Lenovo laptop: their atrocious history with backdoors and buggy, vulnerable software, and the lockdown within their BIOS/UEFI to prevent things like swapping components for no good reason.

Ok well, that was more than one reason, but you get the drift.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:17AM (#22266738)
That's not true for Lenovo Thinkpads, which is a separate business division from Lenovo consumer hardware, as far as I am aware. And subsidizing consumer hardware with spyware has, unfortunately, become a standard industry practice. Most smartphone and Smart TV manufacturers are shipping their consumer devices full of bloatware that is extremely hard to get rid of.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by runjake on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:49PM (#22273162)
It is entirely true for Thinkpads. In fact I wasn’t even really aware of their consumer line. All of what I mentioned occurred on Thinkpads.

And maybe spyware is a standard industry practice like you said. In fact, I’d agree that’s very true. But this is a MacBook thread and I’ve yet to see such a practice on Apple laptops.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by isatty on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:35AM (#22266928)
I don't get the second part of your reply.

So what? Take it lying down?

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:44AM (#22267030)
For non-Apple consumers I see only two options now: to avoid consumer-level hardware (unless it runs something like Android One), or to replace the OS with an open-source alternative (Ubuntu and Fedora work pretty much out of the box on most PCs). In case of Smart TVs, one either has to buy a Commercial TV[1], or run something like Kodi[2].

[1] https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-tvs

[2] https://kodi.tv/

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by briandear on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:43AM (#22267757)
> And subsidizing consumer hardware with spyware has, unfortunately, become a standard industry practice

Not at Apple.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by briandear on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:40AM (#22267732)
I have a SAAS that uses video chat for medical professionals and the #1 creator of support tickets for video problems are those with Lenovo. In fact, when someone has an audio of video problem, “Is this a Lenovo” is among the first questions we ask. The people who have the fewest technical issues? Mac users.

A single anecdote, of course, but advice to switch to Linux is naïve. Most people aren’t software developers. Many people use their computers for things like graphic design or media editing. How do you run Final Cut or Logic on Lenovo with Linux? How about Photoshop? MacOS and Apple hardware is superior for a wide variety of use cases. Maybe not yours, but for many people the pluses of Apple far outweigh the minuses.

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:13PM (#22268903)
> I have a SAAS that uses video chat for medical professionals and the #1 creator of support tickets for video problems are those with Lenovo. In fact, when someone has an audio of video problem, “Is this a Lenovo” is among the first questions we ask. The people who have the fewest technical issues? Mac users.

That says nothing without knowing what percentage of people were using each brand.

Also, Lenovo's consumer hardware is of a much lower quality than Lenovo Thinkpads, which still maintain the standards of IBM.

> A single anecdote, of course, but advice to switch to Linux is naïve. Most people aren’t software developers.

I have switched all of my non-technical family members from Windows to Ubuntu over 5 years ago, and haven't received a single complaint from them yet. A single anecdote, of course.

> Many people use their computers for things like graphic design or media editing.

That's a minority of computer users. Most people use computers for web browsing, media consumption, and editing of Office documents.

> How do you run Final Cut or Logic on Lenovo with Linux? Photoshop?

Bitwig Studio[1] runs on all platforms and is in many ways superior to Logic Pro.

Adobe Photoshop can be installed on Linux[2], but for professional graphical and video editing I would still choose MacOS.

In other words, the only market where iMacs and Macbooks are clearly above competition is creative industry.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwig_Studio

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7ql4kl/the_screensho...

Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by pier25 on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:40AM (#22266989)
They did the same with the 2011 MBP fiasco. Ministry of truth at work.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by dep_b on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:58AM (#22267219)
I have a 2011 here still going strong. Looking like new after all of the free replacements, LOL. I guess that GPU either fried over and over by now or came from a lucky batch.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by pier25 on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:02AM (#22267257)
Mine collected dust for almost 2 years until they announced the repair program. It came too late. I ended up giving it to a junior dev which used it for another year before dying again.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by dep_b on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:37AM (#22267700)
I think we replaced the battery for free or cheap and the screen was in the lamination program, the GPU is the same one as day one. Isn't it weird that it just never happens to some people and other people keep getting their GPU's fried??
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by andrei_says_ on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:52AM (#22267895)
Mine is still getting used but the gpu is dying even after a replaced logic board. Still absolutely love the matte screen though.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by Ackshully on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:56AM (#22267193)
Psst - Hacker News deletes posts too.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by Ackshully on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:57AM (#22267205)
In fact they delete posts about the fact they delete posts.
Re:MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) by luckydata on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:17AM (#22266729)
They have been doing that forever, every time people report a bad problem they'll try to cover it up for a while.